Why Brand and Product Are Two Sides of the Same Coin: Lessons from Karl Isaac

Fireside Product Management

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In this episode of the Fireside PM podcast, I had the privilege of catching up with Karl Isaac, my former manager from Microsoft and a branding expert who has left an indelible mark on some of the world’s most renowned companies. Our conversation was not just a trip down memory lane—it was an exploration of how product managers (PMs) can elevate their craft by embracing the power of branding.

Karl’s career journey spans iconic tech companies like Apple, Microsoft, and Adobe, where he led transformational brand campaigns and initiatives that redefined what it means to integrate brand and product. Below, I’ll distill our conversation into actionable takeaways tailored for tech product managers.

1. A Nonlinear Path to Excellence

Karl's journey into the world of branding wasn't planned. He started in architecture, transitioned to design, and later pursued an MBA, which opened doors to Apple. There, he worked on the iTools team—a precursor to today’s SaaS products. His career continued at Microsoft, where he took on business development roles, later transitioning to branding.

Reflecting on this journey, Karl said, “I didn’t set out to be a brand builder, but every step along the way taught me how design, storytelling, and strategy could come together to create something powerful.”

Key lesson for PMs: Career paths aren’t always linear. Karl’s background in architecture and design uniquely positioned him to bring creative problem-solving to technology. PMs can benefit from embracing diverse experiences and perspectives, which often lead to innovative solutions.

2. How Brand Shapes Perception

One of the most fascinating parts of Karl’s career was leading Microsoft's response to Apple’s famous "Get a Mac" campaign. Apple had depicted PCs as stodgy and uncool, personified by the character of a nerdy office worker. Karl’s team flipped the script with the “I’m a PC” campaign, showcasing real people—scientists, artists, and entrepreneurs—who used PCs to achieve incredible things.

Karl shared, “We wanted to show that PCs weren’t just for accountants or nerds. They were tools for creators and innovators everywhere. It was about humanizing the technology.”

He emphasized that this campaign wasn’t just about countering Apple’s narrative. It was about highlighting Microsoft’s mission to democratize technology.

PM takeaway: A product isn’t just a set of features; it’s a representation of your brand. Every product decision—whether it’s a new feature, UI design, or onboarding flow—affects how customers perceive your company. Are you reinforcing your brand’s core values, or unintentionally undermining them?

3. Why PMs Should Think Beyond Features

Karl pointed out that too often, product teams focus narrowly on shipping features, overlooking the broader customer experience. He shared an example from eBay, where he led the integration of brand into the product organization. His team worked to shift eBay's perception from a place for quirky, hard-to-find items to a modern marketplace with fast shipping and reliable customer service.

“It’s not just about what you’re shipping,” Karl noted. “It’s about the story your product is telling. Every touchpoint matters, from search results to the checkout experience.”

One particularly innovative product initiative involved leveraging AI to integrate eBay’s catalog into Facebook Messenger, allowing users to find and purchase items instantly. This wasn’t just a product enhancement; it was a branding move that reinforced eBay as a forward-thinking, customer-centric platform.

PM takeaway: Every feature you ship contributes to your brand story. Ask yourself, “Does this align with our brand’s vision? Does it reinforce the perception we want to build?”

4. Brand as an Action, Not a Department

Karl challenged the traditional view of brand as the responsibility of marketing or design teams. Instead, he argued that brand is an action—a dynamic, customer-facing experience shaped by every team in the company.

“Brand isn’t something you define in a vacuum,” Karl said. “It’s what customers experience. It’s what they say about you when you’re not in the room.”

At Adobe, Karl spearheaded the use of community-generated artwork for product splash screens in tools like Photoshop and Illustrator. This simple decision not only strengthened Adobe’s brand identity but also deepened its connection with its community.

PM takeaway: Think of yourself as a brand leader. Every touchpoint—from your product’s first-use experience to how it handles errors—shapes how customers perceive your company. Collaborate early and often with brand teams to ensure a cohesive experience.

5. Vulnerability as a Leadership Superpower

Karl reflected on how leadership styles have evolved over the years. Early in his career, intimidation and hierarchy were common management tactics. Today, successful leaders inspire through vulnerability, collaboration, and empathy.

“Leading with vulnerability isn’t a weakness,” Karl explained. “It’s about building empathy, and empathy is the cornerstone of innovation.”

He shared how this shift has influenced his work, including his decision to move branding under product at eBay. This change broke down silos, fostering closer collaboration between teams. The result? More cohesive strategies that aligned brand and product goals.

PM takeaway: Vulnerability and empathy aren’t just for people management—they’re critical for understanding your customers. Build teams that aren’t afraid to challenge assumptions, admit mistakes, and iterate based on real feedback.

6. The Danger of Hubris in Tech

Our conversation turned to Elon Musk’s rebranding of Twitter to X. Karl described it as a textbook example of hubris. Musk ignored the brand equity built over years and replaced it with a vision driven more by personal ego than customer benefit.

“Conviction is one thing,” Karl said, “but hubris is something else entirely. It’s a lack of listening, and that’s where things go off the rails.”

In contrast, Karl praised Apple’s brand strategy under Steve Jobs, which was rooted in conviction rather than hubris. Apple didn’t conduct traditional ad testing but made bold, customer-centric decisions that aligned with its brand values.

PM takeaway: Conviction is essential, but it must be rooted in customer insights, not arrogance. Always ask, “What’s the benefit for the customer?” If you can’t answer that, rethink your approach.

7. Community-Led Growth as the Future

Karl advocated for thinking beyond product-led growth to embrace community-led growth. He highlighted how brands like Slack and Adobe built loyal communities by embedding their customers into the product experience.

“Your customers aren’t just users,” Karl said. “They’re co-creators. The more you involve them, the stronger your brand becomes.”

For instance, Adobe’s decision to feature community artwork in its products wasn’t just a branding move—it was a way to co-create value with users. Similarly, Slack’s early success was driven by its playful, highly shareable features that delighted users.

PM takeaway: How can you involve your customers in shaping your product? Whether it’s through community feedback, user-generated content, or co-creation initiatives, a strong community can amplify your product’s impact and extend its lifecycle.

8. The Brand-Product Feedback Loop

Karl’s philosophy boils down to one central idea: Brand and product aren’t separate—they’re deeply interconnected. When done right, brand work sets the stage for great product experiences, and great products reinforce the brand.

He left us with a thought-provoking question: “As a product manager, are you making a deposit in the brand bank or a withdrawal?” Every decision you make—whether it’s a feature prioritization, a pricing model, or a customer support policy—either strengthens or weakens your brand.

PM takeaway: Don’t treat brand as an afterthought. Make it a foundational part of your product strategy. Consider bringing a brand leader into your early product discussions, just as you would involve engineering or design.

Closing Thoughts: Don’t Believe Your Own Hype

Karl shared one of the best pieces of career advice he’s ever received: “Don’t believe your own hype.” Stay humble, listen to people at all levels, and remain open to learning. These principles apply not just to personal growth but also to product and brand strategy.

“Great brands aren’t built in boardrooms,” Karl said. “They’re built by listening to your customers and working across teams to create something they truly love.”

As tech PMs, we often pride ourselves on metrics, roadmaps, and shipping features. But Karl’s perspective reminds us of the bigger picture. At the end of the day, we’re not just building products—we’re shaping experiences, perceptions, and, ultimately, enduring brands.

What do you think? Should brand and product teams collaborate more closely? How can PMs take a more active role in shaping their company’s brand? Let me know in the comments!Learn more about Karl: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brands/Learn more about Tom’s executive coaching practice: https://tomleungcoaching.com

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