Why is it that products are so hard to develop and deliver? How can we truly deliver value with so many different variables that can affect the outcome? We are Sander Dur and Jim Sammons, professional consultants and trainers who support organizations in their pursuit of creating valuable products. Passionate about helping the community and practitioners apply the theory many authors and thought leaders bring to the industry, we started this podcast to make these concepts more accessible. Th ...
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Sander Dur Podcasts

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#143 Generosity, Community, and the Changing Agile Landscape with Jose Casal
33:27
33:27
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33:27“Generosity as a strategy — I’ve never seen it not pay back eventually.” In this lively conversation, Jim and Sander welcome Jose Casal — agile coach, trainer, and long-time conference organizer — to reflect on the people, purpose, and future of agile gatherings. As part of the Scan Agile 2025 organizing team, Jose shares why he continues to invest…
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#141 Embracing Agility Beyond Tech: Insights with Michal Epstein
52:07
52:07
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52:07“Agile is not just for software — it’s for solving problems anywhere there’s complexity:" At Scan Agile 2025, Jim and Sander dive into a thought-provoking conversation with Michal Epstein about the transformative power of agility beyond traditional tech environments. Discover how agile principles can be applied in diverse fields like biotech and co…
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#140 Poker, Projects, and Probability: Lessons from the Poker Table with Stacy Oliver
59:20
59:20
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59:20“In both poker and business, humans are the biggest variable—and the biggest opportunity." In this episode of Mastering Agility, Jim welcomes long-time friend and seasoned agile coach Stacy Oliver for a fascinating conversation that blends the worlds of poker, game theory, and agility. Drawing from decades of experience at the card table and in the…
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#139 The Leader in All of Us: Changing Narratives, Changing Organizations with Laura Heikkurinen
28:02
28:02
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28:02“I dream of a world where we don’t have managers — just autonomous, inspired teams.” In this insightful episode of Mastering Agility, hosts Sander and Jim sit down with Laura Heikkurinen, Lead Transformation Coach at OP Financial Group, live at the Scan Agile 2025 conference. Together, they dive into the nuances of modern leadership, the tension be…
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#138 More Watts, Less Waste: Efficiency Lessons from Triathlon and Scrum with Dana Mykytiuk
32:57
32:57
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32:57“You can build software with Excel. You can finish an Ironman on a cheap bike. But will it be enjoyable? That’s another question.” In this inspiring and energetic episode, Sander and Jim sit down with Dana—Scrum Master, team lead, and passionate triathlete—just ahead of her session at the Online Scrum Master Summit. Together, they unpack: Dana’s jo…
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#137 Strategic Storytelling: Shaping Agile Culture Through Narrative with Osita Ifezue
39:09
39:09
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39:09"Origin stories create die-hard fans. Once your story and your product are inseparable, you win." In this powerful episode of Mastering Agility, Jim and Sander sit down with storytelling strategist Osita Ifezue to explore how strategic storytelling can reshape the way agile teams operate, connect with customers, and innovate beyond the status quo. …
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#136 Hope Is Not a Strategy: Leading Culture Change That Works with Anna Lavrova
44:13
44:13
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44:13n this reflective and insightful episode, Jim is joined by organizational coach Anna Lavrova to unpack her talk at the Scrum Master Summit and dive into the real mechanics of organizational culture. They discuss why people often feel "off" in their roles—not because of the work, but because of the culture—and how leaders can make sense of multicult…
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#135 Mastering the Mind: Mental Fitness, Meaning, and the Inner Game with René de Leijer
46:04
46:04
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46:04“Mental fitness is like going to the gym—but for your mind.” In this insightful episode, Jim welcomes René de Leijer—Agile Coach, Scrum Master, and co-creator of The Inner Game—to explore what it truly means to help people, teams, and organizations grow. René shares his philosophy on being “strategically lazy,” the importance of psychological safet…
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#134 From Gut to Great: Smarter Group Decisions in Agile with Tobi Mende
40:33
40:33
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40:33In this thought-provoking episode, Jim sits down with Tobias -Tobi- Mende, engineering leadership consultant and speaker at the upcoming Online Scrum Master Summit from June 17-19 to explore the real challenges of decision-making in agile teams. Drawing from 15+ years of experience, Tobi shares how poor visibility, lack of strategy, and fear of fai…
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#133 Kumbaya Won't Save You - Facing Resistance, Building Growth, and Leading Without the Fluff with Martijn Versteeg
1:13:34
1:13:34
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1:13:34"The people stuff is hard. It always is" Get ready for a powerful conversation on Mastering Agility where hosts Jim and Sander sit down with Martijn Versteeg — tech entrepreneur, leadership facilitator, and former rowing coach. We dive deep into the real challenges of leadership, change resistance, and personal growth. From building peer groups for…
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#131 Drawn to Agility: Creating Clarity with Every Line with Olina Glindevi and Ben Walder
52:54
52:54
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52:54"If you're going to write about Agile, you better work Agile." In this special live episode, hosts Jim and Sander chat with Olina Glindevi and Ben Walder, the creative duo behind The Visual Agile Coach Playbook, at the ScanAgile 25 conference in Helsinki. They share the origin story of their book, their collaboration journey, and the power of visua…
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#130 Slides, Science, and Shaping the Future: Building Brave Cultures from Playgrounds to Boardrooms
56:53
56:53
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56:53"Let people twist, turn, and break your product a little — that's where the magic happens." In this special ScanAgile 25 edition, hosts Jim and Sander sit down with Linda Liukas — renowned author, educator, and playground designer — for a rich conversation about creativity, risk, resilience, and the future of learning and public spaces. Linda share…
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#129 Building Resilience and Embracing Change: The Path to Agile Success with Tricia Broderick
56:55
56:55
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56:55"Resilience isn’t about avoiding change; it’s about learning to thrive within it." Join us for a special live episode of the Mastering Agility Podcast, recorded at the ScanAgile Conference 2025! Our guest, Tricia Broderick, is a leadership expert, coach, and passionate advocate for building high-performing and resilient teams. In this insightful co…
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#128 Starry Nights and Soulless Office: Jim and Sander on Van Gogh, Corporate Dementors, and the Art of Mastery
58:43
58:43
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58:43"I don’t like the phrase 'meet people where they are.' If you only do that, it’s too easy for everyone to settle. Instead, I try to meet them a half-step ahead—and take them on a field trip to what’s possible." In this episode, Jim and Sander talk about the pursuit of mastery, how to inspire growth, and why being too comfortable can kill progress. …
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#127 Rowing in the Same Direction: Strategic Agility with Co-Founder and CEO of Dragonboat Becky Flint
54:50
54:50
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54:50"We don't do the thinking for you—we surface signals out of the noise." In this episode of Mastering Agility, Sander and Jim sit down with Becky Flint, CEO and Co-Founder of Dragon Boat, to discuss the importance of strategic agility and value-driven product management. Becky shares her journey from working at PayPal to founding Dragon Boat, a prod…
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#126 Agile: Alive and Evolving with Arie van Bennekum
37:00
37:00
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37:00"When people say Agile is dead, most of them have never seen it really working." In this insightful episode, Sander sits down with Arie van Bennekum, one of the co-authors of the Agile Manifesto, to discuss the current state of Agile, common misconceptions, and the evolving nature of agile practices in modern organizations. Arie shares his thoughts…
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#125 From Pivotitis to Product Perfection: Fighting Product Diseases with Radhika Dutt
1:00:59
1:00:59
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1:00:59In this eye-opening episode, we sit down with Radhika Dutt, the mind behind Radical Product Thinking. Radhika challenges the conventional wisdom of product development, explaining why big, vague visions, shallow strategies, and blind iteration often lead teams astray. She introduces us to the Radical Product Thinking framework, which helps teams av…
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#124 Survival, Strength, and Saving Lives: Arjan Erkel on 607 Days in Captivity and Rescuing Girls from Exploitation
1:24:29
1:24:29
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1:24:29In this gripping episode, Sander and Jim sit down with Arjan Erkel, who shares his harrowing experience of being kidnapped and held hostage for 607 days in Dagestan. Arjan walks us through the terrifying moment of his abduction, the psychological battles he faced in captivity, and the resilience that helped him survive. He also discusses his remark…
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#123 Curiosity and Crust: What Sourdough Teaches About Agile with Tammy Gretz
59:42
59:42
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59:42In this episode, Jim sits down with Tammy Gretz, an Agile and Design Thinking coach based in Central Ohio. They dive deep into the nuances of coaching, the value of curiosity and partnership, and how these concepts relate to agile methodologies and design thinking. They also touch on topics like personal growth, learning through experimentation, an…
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#122 Anchors, Bold Moves, and Flies on Urinals: The Subtle Power of Behavioral Science with Phill Agnew
55:22
55:22
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55:22💡 Description: In this thought-provoking episode of Mastering Agility, Jim and Marge sit down with Phil Agnew, host of the UK’s #1 marketing podcast, Nudge. Together, they explore the fascinating world of behavioral science, revealing how subtle nudges shape our decisions, from marketing campaigns to everyday life. Discover the psychology behind wh…
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#121 Wise bees, optimized Learning and acceptable Discomfort: Mastering Agility Hosts and Ryan Brook Reflect on 2024
1:08:01
1:08:01
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1:08:01In this reflective and inspiring year-end episode of Mastering Agility, hosts Sander Dur and Jim Sammons are joined by "Solving For Value" co-author and "evil twin" Ryan Brook, along with editor extraordinaire Marge Scheuerer, for a conversation about leadership, agility, and the ever-elusive definition of success. From personal growth in 2024 to t…
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#120 From Critique to Connection: The Path to Growth and Connection through feedback with James De Mulder
1:13:41
1:13:41
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1:13:41Description: In this episode, Sander and Jim dive deep into the art and science of feedback. Joined by James De Mulder, they explore the nuances of giving and receiving feedback, its role in personal and team growth, and the challenges that come with it. Learn how principles from Nonviolent Communication (NVC) can transform feedback into a powerful…
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#119 Solving for Value with Ryan Brook and Sander Dur
1:01:46
1:01:46
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1:01:46In this conversation, Jim talks to Sander, and Ryan about their book 'Solving for Value', exploring its motivations, tone, and the importance of authenticity and empathy in consultancy. They delve into the complexities of work relationships, the significance of critical thinking, and the shared struggles many face in their professional lives. The d…
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#118 Agile Alchemy: Turning Refinement into Gold
30:27
30:27
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30:27"Refinement is about gathering enough information to get started, not pre-cooking the entire task." In this episode of Mastering Agility, Jim and Sander explore the concept of Refinement in agile teams, discussing its purpose in creating shared understanding, adding details, and aligning on goals. Refinement isn’t about perfect planning but ensurin…
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#117 - Beyond Frameworks: Ambition, AI, and Agility - Part 2
41:11
41:11
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41:11In this podcast episode, Jim and Sander discuss the final stages of Sander and Ryan Brooks's upcoming book, Solving for Value: A Journey of Ambition and Stupidity. Sander shares his excitement around the book's December 1st release and the launch event. The book, originally focused on Scrum, evolved to address broader challenges around creating val…
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#117 - Beyond Frameworks: Ambition, AI, and Agility - Part 1
26:51
26:51
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26:51In this podcast episode, Jim and Sander discuss the final stages of Sander and Ryan Brooks's upcoming book, Solving for Value: A Journey of Ambition and Stupidity. Sander shares his excitement around the book's December 1st release and the launch event. The book, originally focused on Scrum, evolved to address broader challenges around creating val…
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#116 Neurodiversity in Scrum Teams with Anita Kalmane-Boot - Part 2
40:00
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40:00summary In this conversation, Sander Dur and Anita Kalmane-Boot explore the concept of neurodivergence, discussing its implications in personal and professional settings. They delve into the definitions of neurodiversity and neurodivergent conditions, share personal experiences, and highlight the importance of understanding and accommodating neurod…
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#116 Neurodiversity in Scrum Teams with Anita Kalmane-Boot - Part 1
28:17
28:17
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28:17summary In this conversation, Sander Dur and Anita Kalmane-Boot explore the concept of neurodivergence, discussing its implications in personal and professional settings. They delve into the definitions of neurodiversity and neurodivergent conditions, share personal experiences, and highlight the importance of understanding and accommodating neurod…
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#115 Hosts against Humanity: A tale of Scrum, Smurfs & big decisions - Part 2
38:52
38:52
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38:52This episode features an interview with the hosts of Mastering Agility who discuss their personal and professional journeys into Agile. Sander and Jim share how they transitioned into the Scrum Master role from various career paths. Both highlight the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and servant leadership in their Agile work. Jim i…
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#115 Hosts against Humanity: A tale of Scrum, Smurfs & big decisions - Part 1
33:38
33:38
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33:38This episode features an interview with the hosts of Mastering Agility who discuss their personal and professional journeys into Agile. Sander and Jim share how they transitioned into the Scrum Master role from various career paths. Both highlight the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and servant leadership in their Agile work. Jim i…
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#114 - Agile HR: From Managing to Empowering Employees with Riina Hellstrom - Part 2
38:03
38:03
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38:03Summary In this conversation, Sander Dur and his guest Riina Hellstrom explore the evolving role of HR in organizations, emphasizing the shift from traditional "resource management" to a more agile, empowering approach. They discuss the importance of adopting an agile mindset in HR practices, the impact of AI on the workforce, and the necessity for…
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#114 - Agile HR: From Managing to Empowering Employees with Riina Hellstrom - Part 1
30:32
30:32
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30:32Summary In this conversation, Sander Dur and his guest Riina Hellstrom explore the evolving role of HR in organizations, emphasizing the shift from traditional "resource management" to a more agile, empowering approach. They discuss the importance of adopting an agile mindset in HR practices, the impact of AI on the workforce, and the necessity for…
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#113 The end of the Goldrush? The Agile Crisis with Jurgen Appelo - Part 2
46:48
46:48
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46:48"The way we have been working for the last 20 years with standard frameworks and methodologies, we're going to leave behind." Summary In this conversation Sander Dur, Jim Sammons and their guest Jurgen Appelo explore the impact of the current crisis on the agile community and the need for adaptation and learning new skills. They discuss the concept…
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#113 The end of the Goldrush? The Agile Crisis with Jurgen Appelo - Part 1
36:23
36:23
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36:23"The way we have been working for the last 20 years with standard frameworks and methodologies, we're going to leave behind." Summary In this conversation Sander Dur, Jim Sammons and their guest Jurgen Appelo explore the impact of the current crisis on the agile community and the need for adaptation and learning new skills. They discuss the concept…
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#112 The Product Operating Model with Chris Jones - Part 2
35:52
35:52
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35:52summary In this conversation, hosts Sander Dur and Jim Sammons discuss various topics including the impact of books, the secrecy of Apple, consumer behavior, and the product operating model with their guest Chris Jones. They explore the concept of the product operating model, which focuses on shifting from output-oriented approaches to outcome-orie…
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#112 The Product Operating Model with Chris Jones - Part 1
32:54
32:54
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32:54summary In this conversation, hosts Sander Dur and Jim Sammons discuss various topics including the impact of books, the secrecy of Apple, consumer behavior, and the product operating model with their guest Chris Jones. They explore the concept of the product operating model, which focuses on shifting from output-oriented approaches to outcome-orie…
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#111 Raging Against Fake Agile with Gillie & Marge
49:16
49:16
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49:16In this episode, the Mastering Agility Podcast-team discusses various misunderstandings and misapplications of Agile practices, particularly how Agile is often reduced to a set of tools or deadlines rather than its core principles of flexibility and value-driven work. Key points include: Agile can be misused to push unfinished work or prioritize sp…
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#110 The Agile Product Operating Model with Simon Reindl & Martin Hinshelwood
1:30:30
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1:30:30summary The conversation explores the challenges and misconceptions surrounding agile methodologies, particularly Scrum, and the need for a common understanding and language in the industry. The guests discuss the fatigue and disillusionment with agile and the constant influx of new buzzwords. They emphasize the importance of focusing on core princ…
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#109 Organizing the Scan Agile Conference with Kjell de Ruiter & Eliska Cejpova
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32:45Summary The conversation revolves around the Agile24 conference and the feelings associated with its end. The Sander and his guests talk about the biggest concerns in the run-up to the conference and the importance of risk management and preparation. They reflect on improvements for next year, particularly in terms of party and networking. They dis…
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#108 The Silent Killer of Agile with Alex & Sally Sloley
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49:13
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49:13Summary The conversation covers karaoke, the Finnish Agile community, bad agile practices, agile transformations, fear, and personal advice. Sander Dur and his guests Sally and Aley Sloley discuss their dislike for karaoke and share stories about karaoke experiences. They praise the Finnish Agile community for their commitment and investment in cre…
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The conversation revolves around the concept of value and its various interpretations. The hosts discuss the importance of defining and measuring value, the role of quality in delivering value, and the challenges faced by organizations in prioritizing value. They also touch on the impact of short-sightedness, the rise of disruptive competitors, and…
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#106 Untrapping Product Teams with David Pereira
1:20:07
1:20:07
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1:20:07Summary In this episode, David shares his experience of writing his book 'Untrapping Product Teams' and discusses the challenges and traps that product teams often face. He talks about the importance of resilience and a growth mindset for product managers. David emphasizes the need for a balance between discovery and delivery, stating that discover…
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In this conversation, the Sander Dur and Jose Casal discuss finding happiness in everyday life and the importance of incremental achievements. They also explore the role of leaders as organizational gardeners and the need to create environments for people to thrive. The definition of business agility is examined, along with the future of Agile and …
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#104 The Happiness Blueprint with Antoni Tzavelas
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43:51SummaryIn this conversation, Anthony shares his insights on happiness and its impact on individuals and teams. He discusses the challenges he faced in his life and how he overcame them to find happiness. Anthony emphasizes the importance of self-reflection, empathy, and a positive mindset in fostering happiness. He also introduces the concept of th…
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#103 Lean Portfolio Management and OKRs with Yuval Yeret
1:04:42
1:04:42
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1:04:42Summary In this conversation, Jim, Sander, and their guest Yuval discuss various topics including SAFE, lean portfolio management, and OKRs. They explore the misconceptions and polarizing nature of SAFE, the difference between a traditional PMO and a lean portfolio, and the challenges of managing different ways of working within a global organizati…
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#102 "No Matter What" with Agavni Jessaijan
1:23:44
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1:23:44Summary In this conversation, Sander Dur and Agavni Jessaijan discuss her diverse creative skills and her journey to self-employment. They explore the importance of communication and the belief that everything is possible. Agavni shares her experiences as an entrepreneur and the challenges she faced during the pandemic. They also discuss her partic…
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#101 Fred Deichler on The Agile Coaching Growth Wheel
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40:13Summary In this conversation, Fred reflects on his experience speaking at Scan Agile and shares his biggest lesson learned. He also discusses the Agile Coaching Growth Wheel and the need for unifying standards in the agile coaching profession. The conversation explores the difference between agile coaches and scrum masters and the importance of the…
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Summary Denise discusses the concept of product operations and its role in helping product managers make faster and better quality decisions. Product operations involves providing PMs with the necessary inputs and support to set strategy, prioritize, create roadmaps, and collaborate effectively with stakeholders. It differs from traditional agile a…
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S07 E08 Cliff Hazel and Chris Stone on Going for Chaos
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44:07Summary The conversation explores the overuse of the phrase 'it depends' and the importance of providing context and honesty in responses. The speakers discuss the value of understanding the starting point and the direction one is moving in. They also emphasize the need to optimize for value rather than efficiency and consider the broader impacts a…
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Summary Evelien Hölsken, founder of the Free A GIrl Foundation, discusses her work to end sexual exploitation of children. She shares her journey from a commercial background to the nonprofit sector and explains how she was inspired to start her own foundation. Evelien discusses the challenges of fundraising and the need for transparency in the non…
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