Welcome to the Messy Social Work podcast. The hosts are Richard Devine and Tim Fisher. Check out our website here: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
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Bouncing Back: The Personal Resilience Science Insights Podcast is a podcast by Life Management Science Labs. In the show, we talk about self-compassion, therapy techniques, and all the fun things in between. Each topic addresses an element from the comprehensive framework of several domains and elements created by the Center for Personal Resilience Science.
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The Awake In Relationship podcast explores the art of intimacy and community in the digital age. Build your social fitness habit with inspiration from long form interviews with thought leaders on the frontiers of mindfulness, conscious relationships, community building, deep work and social impact leadership. Fresh episodes drop twice a month on all major platforms.
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This is not a podcast for the mainstream. This is for the silenced, the cast out, and those whose stories never made the headlines. A Groundbreaking Trauma Justice Podcast from a Genocide Survivor and Somatic Therapist. Deeply embodied, politically urgent, and spiritually grounded space led by a therapist who survived war and genocide herself. Ana Mael is not just talking about trauma—she has lived it, survived it, and now guides others through it with radical clarity and compassion. This po ...
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George Fielding BEM on living with cerebral palsy and how we can put the social back into social care
1:06:23
1:06:23
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1:06:23This week, we speak with George Fielding, BEM, a disability rights activist and social care leader. He was the first child in his area to go to a mainstream school in a wheelchair. Since then, he’s worked with charities like Whizz-Kidz, mentored over 100 disabled people, and received an MBE. George also set up two care organisations that focus on d…
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Dr. David Oberleitner: The Impact of Social Exclusion on Mental and Physical Health | Bouncing Back #78
46:10
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46:10Everyone experiences being ignored or excluded at some point in their life, and it affects everyone differently. So, this week on Bouncing Back: The Personal Resilience Science Insights Podcast, host Sarah Stancombe consults psychology professor Dr. David Oberleitner for advice on strengthening our responses to social exclusion. Based at the Univer…
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Rich and Tim take on the top three myths in child protection work
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39:26In this episode of Messy Social Work, Tim Fisher and Rich Devine explore the complexities of child protection social work. They discuss the myths surrounding the profession, the importance of relationships, and the challenges social workers face in balancing their roles. Rich shares insights from his book, addressing misconceptions about the abilit…
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If You Fear Tyranny or Dictatorship: Welcome!
4:12
4:12
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4:12Exiled and Rising isn’t just healing. It’s human rights. It’s survival. It’s resistance. It is : A refuge for the unseen A movement for displaced, exiled, and silenced voices—not just a podcast A justice-centered somatic space, not a self-improvement brand This is not just another podcast about trauma healing. This is a sanctuary for the unseen. A …
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Haunting Truth: For All Adults with Childhood Trauma
6:59
6:59
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6:59In haunting “Walk Home,” Ana Mael delivers something that is rare and profoundly necessary: A Language for the Unspoken This piece gives voice to the invisible pain of children—and adults—who dread returning to a place that is supposed to feel safe. She does not explain the trauma. She names it. She feels it. And in doing so, she makes it real for …
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Rich and Tim introduce 'Messy Social Work' and discuss Rich's blog on reasons for not being a manager
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40:02In this episode of the newly named podcast, Rich and Tim discuss Rich's blog; 15 Years in Social Work – And 4 Reasons I am Still Not a Manager. Rich qualified as a social worker 15 years ago and has never held a management role. This has been a deliberate choice. He has remained working directly with children and families. There are four key reason…
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Dr. Karen Graaff: Riding Waves of Social Change | Bouncing Back #77
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56:30Societal evolution is ever-changing and it can be trying to keep up with the times. So, this week on Bouncing Back: The Personal Resilience Science Insights Podcast, host Marie Stella is joined by women and gender studies researcher Dr. Karen Graaff to learn more about how riding the waves of social change can contribute to our personal resilience …
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For Cold Bitches & Emotionless Men: The Strength Behind the Shield
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20:01Have you ever been called a “cold, distant bitch”? Or an emotionless prick? In this episode, Ana Mael reveals the untold story behind these labels and explores how what the world sees as "cold" is actually profound emotional intelligence. Being labeled “cold” is not a weakness—it’s a survival mechanism. This episode is for anyone who has been misun…
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Social Anxiety Isn't Just Nerves: The Trauma Behind Your Fear of Connection
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8:07Social anxiety is not just shyness—it's a battle within your body, a fight for survival in a world that constantly demands you to be seen. But what if I told you that the very same body that holds your fear also holds the key to your healing? Social anxiety is often misunderstood as just being shy or introverted, but it’s far deeper than that—it’s …
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Professor Anna Gupta (Royal Holloway, University of London) on Poverty and intersectionality
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51:24In this episode, we interview Professor Anna Gupta about her early experiences as a social worker, her transition into academia, and her important work on poverty and intersectionality in the context of child protection. We explore: - The social model - intersectionality - The role of poverty in child abuse and neglect - The capabilities approach H…
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A somatic prayer to call in love that holds, honors, and does not erase you. In this deeply soothing prayer of Exiled & Rising, Ana Mael offers a somatic prayer for those seeking love that does not cost them their truth, their boundaries, or their body. This is not a prayer of performance. It is a prayer of presence—an invitation to receive love th…
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Micaela Buenemann: Building Resilience After a Toxic Relationship | Bouncing Back #76
1:17:41
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1:17:41Toxic relationships can leave lasting emotional scars, making it challenging to rebuild confidence and trust. But resilience is possible, and healing is within reach. This week on Bouncing Back: The Personal Resilience Science Insights Podcast, host Sabrina Oktavelia is joined by Micaela Buenemann to explore the journey of rebuilding life and self-…
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Rich and Tim on how to find meaning in life
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44:17In this episode of the Relational Activism in Social Work podcast, asides Tim's nice hair and the clay.... Tim Fisher FRSA and Richard Devine discuss the powerful insights from James Hollis' Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life. They explore the challenges of midlife, from the loss of purpose in previously fulfilling careers to the struggle b…
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A Prayer for When It’s Too Much to Carry: Held in Grief
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5:19Whether you are mourning the loss of a loved one, the loss of home, the loss of safety, or the loss of faith in your country or community—this prayer is for you. In this sacred and unedited episode of Exiled and Rising, Ana Mael offers a somatic prayer for those carrying grief that is too heavy to hold alone. This episode is a place to lay your sor…
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I Survived Genocide: This Is What I Didn't Survive—And You Won't Either
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8:37In this unfiltered, soul-witnessing episode of Exiled and Rising, Ana Mael reads directly from page 185 of her memoir The Trauma We Don’t Talk About. This is a reading and reflection—not from the past, but from the living, ongoing truth of what genocide does to the body, the nervous system, and the identity. In a world where genocide is happening i…
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Jamie Spencer (London Borough of Camden) on Data, Community and Connection
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42:37In this episode, we interview Jamie Spencer, who holds the position of 'Head of Insight, Quality, Financial Services, and Digital for Camden Adult Social Care'. However, don't let that job title deter you from listening, as Jamie has had a fascinating journey through social care from support worker to senior leader and has been at the forefront of …
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You Need Justice, Not Breathwork: Imprisoned By Others – Part 1
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20:00Why healing becomes a prison when it doesn’t include justice, relational repair, and acknowledgement? In this direct, unfiltered episode of Exiled and Rising, Ana invites you into the truth that most trauma spaces avoid: healing alone is not enough. Drawing from lived experience and years of working with those displaced by war, harmed by family, or…
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Your Wound Is Your Medicine: Turn Harm Into Resistance, Justice, and Power
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9:03“Everything that was done to harm me became the medicine to heal me.” Ana transforms her lived experience—statelessness, war, violations—into a global invitation: your pain can become your political and spirtual quest for justice. “When I was humiliated, I healed by honoring the person in front of me.” Ana’s poetic yet grounded declarations are roo…
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Prayer as Resistance: For Marginalized, Censored, Ostracized and Unseen
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15:30This Is Not Just a Prayer. This Is a Protest. This episode is a somatic and spiritual response to systemic exclusion. In a time when book bans, anti-immigration laws, transphobia, genocide, censhorship and the rise of authoritarianism are threatening the safety and dignity of marginalized people ( and everyone with voice), Ana Mael offers a counter…
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Professor Andrew Turnell (Australia) on Safety and belonging in child protection
1:13:23
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1:13:23In this episode, we speak to Professor Andrew Turnell, co-creator of Signs of Safety. In January 2023, he received the Member of the Order of Australia award for his sustained and innovative contributions to child protection social work. Andrew is internationally renowned for his ground-breaking work in developing safety-organized, solution-focused…
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For the Anxious Hours When It's All Too Much: Somatic Prayer With Divine
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8:00Use somatic prayer for the moments when your nervous system feels pushed to the edge. Ana Mael offers more than words—she offers a relational space with the Divine, where overwhelm, fear and anxiety softens and the body remembers safety. This episode is not instructional or analytical—it is experiential. Ana Mael guides the listener through a deepl…
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Mark Canada, Ph.D. : Resilient Reflections — Thriving in The New Year | Bouncing Back #75
1:02:03
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1:02:03As a new year begins, many of us reflect on past experiences and set intentions for personal growth. But how can we turn reflection into a powerful tool for resilience? This week on Bouncing Back: The Personal Resilience Science Insights Podcast, host Sabrina Oktavelia is joined by Mark Canada, Ph.D., to explore how self-reflection can help us thri…
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You Don't Need To Forgive: Privileged Tool Of Silencing
28:49
28:49
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28:49You don’t owe forgiveness to anyone who hurt you. In this unapologetic and deeply validating episode, Ana Mael dismantles the harmful myth that forgiveness is a requirement for healing. With clarity and compassion, Ana speaks directly to marginalized, BIPOC, and harmed individuals who’ve been told—explicitly or subtly—that their healing must includ…
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Terrible Knowledge: What Trauma Taught You That No One Else Can
12:21
12:21
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12:21Ana’s own history as a genocide and war survivor roots this episode in lived experience, offering not abstract theory—but guidance forged in lived pain. What if the hardest parts of your life—the pain, the silence, the survival—taught you a wisdom more powerful than any degree? In this episode, Ana Mael calls it Terrible Knowledge—the kind of embod…
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Withdrawn and Lonely: The Trauma of Not Being Welcomed
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13:41
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13:41Withdrawal is a deep somatic adaptation to chronic unsafety, invisibility, and social erasure. Ana identifies withdrawal not as a symptom to be “fixed,” but as a brilliant survival strategy when someone has never felt safe, welcomed, or truly allowed to exist as they are. Welcome to Exiled and Rising. Please follow and rate and always share to othe…
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The Trauma of Obedience: Censorship and Somatic Cost of Silencing Yourself
15:36
15:36
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15:36In a time of increasing political instability, censorship, and erasure of marginalized voices and every other voice who wants to speak up, Ana Mael’s work boldly calls us back to the sacred terrain of the body. This episode is both a blueprint for personal healing and a call to collective resistance. It offers one of the most nuanced, deeply embodi…
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Save Years in Therapy: The Critical First Step to Trauma & PTSD Healing
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21:59
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21:59If you’ve tried everything to heal but still feel stuck, this one crucial starting point can save you years in therapy. If healing still feels out of reach, it’s not because you’re broken. It’s because healing doesn’t happen in isolation—it happens in a relational space your trauma therpist ( or you ) need do the on somatic embodied level between s…
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Jo Sutton (ISW and Director of Purple Elephant in the Room) on Assessment and how to change the system
52:35
52:35
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52:35Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/…
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Prayer For Depression, Anxiety, And Mental Health: A Guided Somatic Prayer for Inner Piece
7:22
7:22
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7:22Somatic Healing and the Power of Embodied Prayer. In moments of mental heaviness, when the mind is restless and the heart is exausted, let this prayer be a place of hope and mental rejuvenation. Whether you are seeking comfort, piece, faith, or a guided pause from overwhelming thoughts, morning anxiety and fear this episode offers a gentle space to…
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Prayer for Health and Healing Through Diagnosis and Recovery
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8:43
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8:43Prayers have a deeply somatic impact, helping restore whole nervous system. Healing is not just physical—it is emotional, spiritual, and deeply personal and the most impact you have with prayers is when prayers are embodied. Whether you are facing a diagnosis, recovering from illness, or supporting a loved one in their healing journey, this prayer …
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When Self-Hatred and Self-Judgment Rob You of Another Day
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10:21
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10:21Self-hatred is not yours to carry. It was placed there - by somone else - not you. Trauma, neglect, and oppression distort how we see ourselves, burying our inner light under layers of shame and survival. Look as the tactic of opressor to keep you caged and exiled so they can take more space, not you. But that brilliance—the part of you that was si…
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Rich shares his learning from a 5 day silent meditation retreat (Bonus episode)
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25:41
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25:41Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/…
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Not Wanting To Live And Not Wanting To Die: Resignation Syndrome – The Hidden Trauma State No One Talks About
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32:38
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32:38You don’t want to die, but you don’t want to be here either. This is the space no one talks about, not even seasoned therapists,—the silent, hidden trauma state where your body shuts down after too much pain, too much loss, too much survival. This is not depression, it is not you being suicidal. It’s Resignation Syndrom. In today’s episode, Ana Mae…
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Scared of Your Own Voice: Why Trauma Silences You & How to Reclaim It
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10:49
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10:49Have you ever felt afraid to speak up? To take up space? To hear your own voice in a room? At some point, many trauma survivors learn that silence is safer—that being unseen and unheard protects them from harm. But healing requires reclaiming your voice and learning that you deserve to be heard. In this episode, host Ana Mael, a genocide survivor, …
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Release the Burden You Carry: Somatic Tools to Stop Living in Endurance Mode
22:33
22:33
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22:33Trauma and PTSD often leaves us feeling burdened and caged in a state of endurance, as if survival means carrying everything alone. But what happens when your body has endured for too long? No fancy production- real talk only. In this episode, host Ana Mael, a somatic trauma therapist and war survivor, explores the deep-rooted patterns of over-resp…
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Grief and Unprocessed Loss: Somatic Grieving for Trauma & PTSD Body ( Part 1)
19:24
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19:24Grief and Unprocessed Loss: How to identify and name what your body is grieving but your mind has ignored. Grief is not something you process in five stages and then 'get over'—it is something you learn to live with, move through, and integrate. In this powerful episode, we explore how grief lives in the exiled, displaced body, how trauma reshapes …
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Dr. Zhongtian Li: Digital Safety — Your Guide to Staying Secure | Bouncing Back #74
59:35
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59:35As we navigate an increasingly digital world, staying safe online has never been more important. Scams, phishing attacks, and ransomware are becoming more sophisticated, putting individuals at risk of losing personal data, money, and even digital identities. So this week on Bouncing Back: The Personal Resilience Science Insights Podcast, host Sabri…
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Rich, Tim and Parent Activist Kar-Man discuss how to heal from childhood trauma
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44:39Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/…
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When the World Feels Unsafe: Why Finding Safety in Your Body is Non-Negotiable for Survival
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17:06Global crises are making the experience of feeling unsafe more real than ever. When the outside world feels dangerous—whether due to political uncertainity, war, displacement, violence, or personal trauma—how can you find safety within yourself? In this episode of Exiled & Rising, we explore how trauma rewires your nervous system to prioritize surv…
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Why You Want to Disappear and Hide: The Science of Trauma Survival and Healing
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11:30Your trauma body didn’t want to die—but it did want to disappear. This episode of Exiled & Rising explores the survival intelligence of the body when living through exile, war, and displacement. What happens when trauma forces you into hiding? How does the nervous system adapt to make you small, unseen, and safe? Host Ana Mael, a genocide survivor,…
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Rich and Tim discuss Child Protection vs. Family Support
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52:17
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52:17Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/…
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Dissociation Is Not Your Weakness: Your Hidden Power of Survival & Trauma Healing
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15:50Trauma and PTSD can make you disconnected, emotionally numb, or lost in your own world. Say, THANK YOU! Do you find yourself zoning out during stress or struggling to stay present and feel ashamed about it? In this episode of Exiled and Rising, host Ana Mael defines dissociation—not as a weakness, but as a survival mechanism which saved you and pro…
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The Wound of Non-Existence: The Hidden Core of Trauma & PTSD
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27:33Trauma is more than rejection; it is the erasure of your presence, voice, and needs. You learn to yield, avoid conflict, and suppress your own desires and identity.....show note bellow. If this episode resonated with you, please take a moment to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with others who might need to hear this message. Episode Summary…
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Martin Hampton (Adult social worker, Camden) on how to see the person not the problem
56:46
56:46
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56:46Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/…
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Lora Bishop: From Burnout to Balance — Redefining Work-Related Stress | Bouncing Back #73
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42:42Feeling overwhelmed at work? You’re not alone! This week on Bouncing Back: The Personal Resilience Science Insights Podcast, host Marie Stella consults industrial and organizational psychologist Lora Bishop on the scientifically proven ways to manage stress. As a neurodivergent queer person with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), Lora Bishop br…
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Rich and Tim on relationships in social work and 'Spongy boundaries'
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49:34Links: Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.…
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Mercy Muendo, Advocate: Smart Tips for Online Safety | Bouncing Back #72
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1:04:59As the world evolves, we are heading into a digital interconnected world that even includes our doorbells, locks and even refrigerators connected to the web. So this week on Bouncing Back: The Personal Resilience Science Insights Podcast, host Sabrina Oktavelia is joined by CyberSpace and International Trade Law Advocate and Lecturer, Mercy Muendo,…
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Rich and Tim answer, 'What is Relational Activism'
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39:50Links: Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.…
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Lee Weston, Care experienced and prison reform advocate on Care, Prison and Transformation
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50:08Opening Discussion: Teaching & Activism Conversation with Lee: Care Experience, Prison, and Activism Lee’s Background: Grew up in care, moving through 28+ placements. Entered the justice system at 17, receiving a 5-year sentence Lee talks about: The Impact of the Fellowship & Retreat Reflects on the Justice System & Care Experience Describes the cy…
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Charlotte Spires (Assessment social worker from BANES) on how to navigate conflict in social work
45:24
45:24
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45:24In this episode of the Relation Activism in Social Work podcast, hosts Tim Fisher and Rich Devine engage in a lively discussion that covers a range of topics from personal anecdotes about daily life to reflections on their university experiences and the challenges faced in direct work with children in social work. They also touch on upcoming profes…
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