In this episode of The Holy Wild, Victoria Loorz speaks with author and public theologian Brian McLaren about how to live with love, courage, and imagination in the midst of ecological and societal collapse. Rooted in McLaren’s latest book, Life After Doom, their conversation invites us into a deeper spirituality that faces reality without losing hope. Together, they explore how grief, beauty, and small communities of care can become seeds of transformation. It’s a moving, grounded dialogue for anyone longing to walk a path of love—no matter what unfolds.

Mentioned in the episode:

• Book: Life After Doom by Brian McLaren
• Ghost Ranch - www.ghostranch.org
• Book: Everything Must Change: Jesus, Global Crises, and a Revolution of Hope by Brian McLaren
• EBook: Authoritarianism: Coming To A Society Near you by Brian McLaren
• Article: On Doors and \cracks\ by Bayo Akomolafe
• Book: Refugia Faith: Seeking Hidden Shelters, Ordinary Wonders, and the Healing of the Earth by Debra Reinstra
• Podcast: Refugia Podcast with Debra Reinstra
• Short Story: The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas (Kindle) by Ursula K. Le Guin Ursela Leguin
• Book: This Life by Martin Hagglund
• Book: An Interrupted Life by Etty Hillesum
• Article: Etty Hillesum from The Jewish Women's Archive
• Song: Imagine by John Lennon
• Book: Marx- Towards The Centre of Possibility by Kojin Karatani
• Text: Revelation 21-22 A vision of Eco-civilization
• Book: Mapping Ideology by Slavoj Zizek
• Quote: "It is easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of capitalism." (attributed to both Frederic Jameson and Slavoj Zizek)
• Book: Anam Cara by John O'Donohue

Connect with Brian:

• Website: brianmclaren.net
• Instagram: @brian_mclaren

Connect with the Center:

• Website: wildspirituality.earth
• Victoria's Website: victorialoorz.com
• Email: [email protected]
• Linktree: linktr.ee/ctrforwildspirituality
• Instagram: @center_for_wild_spirituality

Timestamps:

• 0:00 Intro
• 5:34 Opening Poem
• 7:12 Interview
• 12:13 4 Problems
• 13:12 Collapse and Authoritarianism
• 18:40 Comfort in cycles and grief
• 21:41 Practically being with neighbors
• 27:12 Repentance
• 29:08 The Bible as Indigenous literature
• 30:30 Adam and the dust we return to
• 32:20 This Life vs the afterlife
• 37:00 What is our dream?
• 41:31 Liberation to new thinking