Legendary songwriter Roger Cook—the only British citizen inducted into the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame—joins Terrance Sawchuk to unpack six decades of craft, business, and integrity. From “Long Cool Woman (In a Black Dress)” and “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing” to “Talking in Your Sleep,” Roger shares how to write songs that outlast trends, the reality of publishing splits, why masters vs. publishing changed the game, and how artists can build direct, sustainable careers with 100 true fans.

You’ll hear frank stories about George Martin, The Beatles, UK/US publishing practices, live performance royalty gaps, demo culture, co-writing integrity, and why Roger still writes two to three days a week at 85—with a Guild ukulele John Prine gifted him.

• Craft: How to write for the listener (and widen your cutability from 3 artists to 33)

• Business: Why historic publishing deals siphoned value—and how to negotiate smarter today

• Royalties: The uncomfortable truth about US live performance payouts vs. other countries

• Strategy: Masters vs. publishing, why investors buy catalogs, and what “uncorrelated assets” mean

• Career Design: Portals, community, and the “100 fans x $1,000” model

• 00:00 Spiritual payment: why one great line is its own paycheck

• 01:00 Terrance’s intro + mission of $old 4 a $ong

• 03:20 Roger at 85: perspective, gratitude, longevity

• 05:40 Choirboy roots → harmony, melody, first groups (The Harmonettes → The Sapphires)

• 08:09 The Kestrels, first co-write: “You’ve Got Your Troubles (I’ve Got Mine)”

• 09:35 When The Fortunes “got the song” and raced it to a hit

• 11:00 George Martin, “Michelle (ma belle),” and becoming artists

• 12:43 The publishing math: 70 years after death & the 50/50 (that wasn’t really 50/50)

• 14:21 US live performance royalties vs. Canada; forms no one files

• 16:02 Cook & Greenaway: integrity over easy credits

• 17:49 Modern split creep: how a writer can end up with 5%

• 19:17 Why investors buy catalogs: undervaluation & uncorrelated assets

• 21:44 Masters vs. publishing: the big shift with streaming scale

• 23:40 100 true fans; ASCAP averages; building direct value

• 25:18 Roger’s routine: still writing 2–3 days a week

• 27:18 First meeting in Nashville (golf, AIR Studios, Beatles orbit)

• 31:30 “Love Don’t Let Me Go,” Hillary Lindsey demo, Gordie Sampson

• 33:15 Coming to Nashville “cocky,” learning to write for the ears here

• 34:47 “Talking in Your Sleep” and leaving the “English bits” out

• 36:13 Lyrics first: mixing for words (carving 1 kHz), pop vs. country sensibilities

• 37:41 Computers, programming, AI voices—and protecting “soul”

• 39:02 The ukulele from John Prine

• 40:08 The Beatles’ shockwave; Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Orbison, Everlys

• 42:35 Work ethic vs. entitlement: Hamburg, clubs, and stagecraft

• 43:50 Closing: claim your worth, build your portal, own your career

Roger Cook is a member of both the American Songwriters Hall of Fame and the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame. His songs have been recorded by The Hollies, Don Williams, Crystal Gayle, George Strait, John Denver, and many more. Notable works include “Long Cool Woman (In a Black Dress),” “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing,” and “Talking in Your Sleep.” He has collaborated with the greats on both sides of the Atlantic and helped shape pop, country, and rock for over five decades.

• “I get paid in my soul as a writer.” — Roger Cook

• “Change one word and 33 artists can cut your song.” — Roger Cook

• “We need a new norm where creators keep leverage.” — Terrance Sawchuk

• George Martin, The Beatles (Rubber Soul, “Michelle”)

• The Fortunes — “You’ve Got Your Troubles (I’ve Got Mine)”

• Crystal Gayle — “Talking in Your Sleep”

• Hillary Lindsey, Gordie Sampson

• John Prine (Guild ukulele)

• Ralph Murphy, ASCAP

• Matt Dusk, Engelbert Humperdinck, Tom Jones

• AIR Studios (co-owned with George Martin)

• Blackbird Studio, John McBride (mix reference)

• Join the movement: TerranceSawchuk.com

• Subscribe, rate, and review $old 4 a $ong to help more creators reclaim their worth.

• Want to go deeper? Watch for the $old 4 a $ong Academy + 1:1 mentoring inside the private portal.

• Host: Terrance Sawchuk

• Guest: Roger Cook

• Production: $old 4 a $ong / Terrance Sawchuk

• Music/Editing: Terrance Sawchuk

• Location: Nashville, TN

songwriting, music business, publishing splits, masters vs publishing, Nashville, George Martin, The Beatles, Roger Cook, Terrance Sawchuk, ASCAP, royalties, country songwriting, catalog sales, investor catalogs, 1000 true fans, ukulele, John Prine

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