Welcome to the fourth series of the MSB podcast, now titled Interbeing. This season focuses on how coaching values can support school communities by encouraging inward reflection and outward, generative relationships. Inspired by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s concept of 'inter-being', this series explores the interconnectedness of all things. We engage in conversations with coaches and educators, dissecting where coaching succeeds and where it doesn't.

This episode, a bonus beginning to our new series, takes us back to our Re:Sourcing Yourself in Uncertain Times online conference in June. We hosted the inimitable Claire Pedrick, founder of 3D coaching and The Coaching Inn podcast, to have a “keynote conversation” with Naomi Ward, our Head of Learning.
It wasn’t at all rehearsed. Naomi and Claire opened the day – not with a speech and cue cards, but with a pause.

In a warm, unhurried conversation, they explored what it means to lead as the human you are, not just the role you play. Claire reminded us that presence often matters more than speed, and that resourcing ourselves is not indulgence but responsibility. Together, they modelled the quiet courage of listening well, noticing what keeps us steady, and letting go of doing more in favour of doing what matters.
For school leaders holding so much for others, it was a gentle provocation: Who – or what – is holding you?

In this episode, Matt begins with a recitation of Mickey ScottBey Jones's poem about creating 'brave spaces' and discusses the importance of honesty, vulnerability, and simplicity in dialogues. Claire Pedrick and Naomi Ward then lead an in-depth discussion on fostering meaningful conversations in school environments.

00:00 Welcome to Inter Being: Introduction and New Name

02:02 Setting the Tone: Creating a Brave Space

04:29 Introducing Claire: A Journey of Identity and Roles

05:56 The Essence of Conversations: Simplicity and Vulnerability

09:56 Navigating Transformational Conversations

18:51 The Power of Vulnerability in Leadership

24:35 Practical Tips for Effective Communication

38:36 Resourcing and Support: Personal Insights

40:55 Conclusion: Reflecting on the Dialogue

You can find us on Linkedin at

Claire Pedrick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairepedrick/

Matt Hall: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-hall-msb/

Naomi Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-ward-098a1535/

Re:Sourcing Yourself in Uncertain Times: https://makingstuffbetter.com/resourcing-yourself-in-a-time-of-uncertainty/

Interbeing 2026:https://makingstuffbetter.com/interbeing/

Interbeing is made by Making Stuff Better https://makingstuffbetter.com/ and produced by Emily Crosby Media https://emilycrosbymedia.com/ and Kyra Kellawan