Great ideas often die, not because they’re wrong, but because no one knows how to influence others to act on them. In leading today’s complex organizations, it’s not enough to be right. The real challenge for leaders is getting people to change behavior, and stay changed. In this episode, we sit down with Joseph Grenny, co-author of Crucial Conversations and one of the world’s leading experts on influence and behavior change, to unpack the science and strategy behind lasting behavior change using his powerful Six Sources of Influence framework. We explore the difference between persuasion and true influence, why most change efforts fail, and how even well-intentioned leaders often rely on the wrong tools—like incentives or policies—when they should be focusing on motivation, social systems, and structural design. Joseph shares real-world stories, including how The Other Side Academy transformed the lives of former felons without a single failed drug test in over a decade. We also look at corporate examples, such as how to pitch ideas internally, how to harness peer pressure the right way, diagnose resistance to change, and why influence always begins with empathy, not authority.

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