In this episode of Clean Break Chats, Andy and Rich dive deep into the messy but transformative power of uncertainty and why sometimes, the scariest decisions become the catalyst for real growth.

They open up about the personal turbulence of 2025’s first half, the emotional weight of moving countries, and what it really means to reframe huge life shifts as an experiment instead of a threat. Andy shares how shifting his mindset to see life as a series of experiments with no guaranteed outcomes - has replaced fear with genuine excitement about what’s next.

Rich unpacks why uncertainty isn’t always the enemy and explains how our craving for both certainty and uncertainty shapes our daily habits, choices, and sense of fulfilment. Together they reflect on how living alcohol-free has made them more resilient and clear-minded to navigate change - not just white-knuckling through it, but actively using it as fuel.

They get honest about the hidden social pressures that keep so many people stuck in the ‘middle lane’ of drinking - not dependent, but not fully free either and why simply taking a break can be more radical than people realise.

They also reveal the launch of their new 28-Day Clean Break Challenge, a guided programme to help anyone who feels stuck hit pause, build fresh momentum, and start rewriting the story they’ve been telling themselves for years - all with real-life community support alongside practical mindset shifts.

Are you ready to make a change a Take a Clean Break - CLICK HERE TO SIGN UP to our 28 day Alcohol Free Challenge

To wrap up, they touch on the power of tiny, consistent steps — whether that’s sticking to easy runs, tweaking your routine, or saying yes to a bit more discomfort because that’s where the big breakthroughs happen, in running and in life.

If you’ve ever felt trapped by the idea that life has to look a certain way - this conversation might just give you the permission slip to try a new experiment of your own.