Hosted by Todd (in the Shadows) Nathanson and Alina Morgan, Song vs. Song pits two similar songs of an era against each other with controversial outcomes.
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Andrew Nathanson Podcasts
Current Season: First Draft Live Between economic whiplash, shifting policies and market volatility that changes by the hour, you need industry insights that cut through the noise. That's exactly why we're launching First Draft Live, a new weekly series that breaks down what's happening, why it matters and what you need to know to do better business. Join us live on Bisnow.com every Friday at 12:30 PM ET / 9:30AM PT for conversations with the industry's sharpest minds discussing the week's m ...
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First Draft Live Ep 14: The Decision: What The Fed Just Told CRE (with Jim Costello)
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The starting gun has gone off: The Federal Reserve lowered interest rates 25 basis points. Now CRE can be off to the races. At least that’s the narrative. In practice, CRE cares more about long-term debt, and the 10-year Treasury ran counter to expectations and actually rose 10 bps, Jim Costello, MSCI’s director of real estate economics, said on th…
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First Draft Live Ep 13: Debt Meets The Housing Crunch (with Sharon Karaffa)
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It’s a high-pressure year for multifamily. Looming maturities, tough capital markets, changing policies, a major shake-up of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on the horizon and intensified national attention are all converging to complicate the sector. But multifamily fundamentals are strong, Sharon Karaffa, president of multifamily debt and structured f…
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154: "The Whole of the Moon" vs. "Under the Milky Way" (with Andrew Unterberger!)
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Song vs. Song is back from our unscheduled hiatus!! We finally cover two songs you might not know but your favorite artists definitely know and probably covered at one point. What is the best celestial and vaguely Celtic college rock song of the '80s, The Waterboys' "The Whole of the Moon" or The Church's "Under the Milky Way"? if you have the time…
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BONUS: The MTV VMAs weren't even on MTV this year
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We keep saying this is the worst VMAs ever, and we're always right. This year hit new lows of being both irrelevant and unwatchable, thank god for Sabrina. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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First Draft Live Ep 12: The Bond Market’s Warning To Real Estate (with Chris Stanley)
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Global bond markets are under siege and CRE is caught in the crossfire. UK 30-year gilt yields surged to their highest level since 1998, and volatility in U.S. Treasuries has repeatedly brushed them against 5%. For commercial real estate, that means more expensive debt, climbing cap rates and global investors second-guessing allocations. Christophe…
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While Todd and Lina wind down their break, a special Bonus Episode released from the vault! Enjoy the greatness of Josie and the Pussycats! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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First Draft Live Ep 11: CMBS Pain Is Only Beginning (with Ethan Penner)
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This episode of First Draft Live is presented by Agora. The godfather of the CMBS market issued a warning that commercial real estate is not out of the woods of its downturn, which is a potential problem for the U.S. economy. “The losses in CRE are so big that the rippling effect of those losses to the economy are so big that they could be quite ha…
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First Draft Live Ep. 10: Inside The Construction Danger Zone (with Les Hiscoe)
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This episode of First Draft Live is presented by Agora. It’s been a chaotic year for the construction industry. Between a volatile tariff regime, elevated interest rates and increased pressures on its labor force, contractors have had to navigate one of the most difficult environments in recent memory. On this week’s First Draft Live, Shawmut Desig…
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First Draft Live Ep. 9: Opportunity Zones: We're Not In 1.0 Anymore (with Steve Glickman)
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The original Opportunity Zone program drove more than $100B into real estate and business investment, but it also faced criticism it missed its mark, failing to spur development in the areas that needed it most. The One Big Beautiful Bill Act just made OZs permanent and it aims to fix all that, tightening the rules on what areas may be designated O…
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First Draft Live Ep. 8: Inside CRE's Tariff Turning Point (with James Bohnaker)
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Liberation Day Part 2 has come and gone, and the U.S. has more clarity on the global trade landscape. Some of the levies will have CRE breathing easier, but some — including the 35% rate on Canada, a hugely important market for construction material imports — might be worse than the industry feared. Already, tariffs have driven construction costs u…
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First Draft Live Ep. 7: Can The Grid Keep Up? Inside The Data Center Surge Reshaping CRE (with Dan Rabb)
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The rise of AI is pushing data centers to their limits. Calls for bigger, denser facilities are increasing and tenant power requirements are doubling in many markets. It’s still not enough to meet the needs of today’s market or tomorrow’s users. On this episode, Bisnow National Data Center Reporter Dan Rabb said keeping the momentum of the data cen…
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A special High School Musical episode (with Big Joel!)
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While we take our break, a little taste of what you can get on our Patreon! We invited Big Joel to do one of our special Patreon bonus episodes, this time about the High School Musical trilogy! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.…
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First Draft Live Ep. 6: Has Real Estate’s Crypto Moment Finally Arrived? (with Gabe Marans)
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Though a few brave (or crazy) pioneers have dabbled with using crypto in commercial real estate, the industry has mostly sat on the sidelines for years. The reason: not enough regulation, no stability or guardrails. This week, that started to change. The passage of the GENIUS Act to create a framework for stablecoins, plus two other bills making th…
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First Draft Live Ep. 5: The Bill That Just Rewired Multifamily (with Alex Jessett)
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The One Big Beautiful Bill is now law, and its impact on housing could be massive. The Low-Income Housing Tax Credit received its biggest reform in 25 years, including halving the requirements of how much of its funding must come from municipal bonds. LIHTC and the Opportunity Zones program were both made permanent, and major adjustments to OZs — i…
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Our follow-up to last year's "Espresso" vs. "HOT TO GO!" episode! How are the two big pop starlets of 2024 faring in 2025? We debate the weird reactions and rollouts of Sabrina Carpenter's "Manchild" vs. Chappell Roan's "The Giver"! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sel…
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First Draft Live Ep. 4: Where Is Global Capital Taking CRE Next (with Tom Taylor)
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U.S. foreign policy these days is a sea of uncertainty — CRE investors’ least favorite thing. From whipsaw tariffs to taxes seen as “revenge” against international players who don’t fall in line with Trump administration goals, money managers are increasingly tentative to put their money on American soil. This week, Trepp Senior Research Manager To…
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152: "Old Town Road" vs. "A Bar Song (Tipsy)" (w/Mark Grondin!)
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America loves hip-hop/country mashups that top the charts for 19 weeks! One was a TikTok fluke that changed the culture, one a legitimate country song from an outsider who rode a Beyonce cosign into Nashville, but which is better, Lil Nas X's "Old Town Road" vs. Shaboozey's "A Bar Song (Tipsy)"? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and C…
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First Draft Live Ep. 3: The Fed Froze CRE. Is A Thaw Coming? (with Mark E. Rose)
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The Federal Reserve decided yet again to hold interest rates steady at the June FOMC meeting. But CRE sees a turning point. This week, Avison Young CEO Mark Rose said the decision was irrelevant anyway. The CRE recovery isn’t coming soon, he said. It’s here now. Register on Bisnow.com to join next Friday's conversation live, or check back here for …
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First Draft Live Ep. 2: The One Big Beautiful Bill Vs. CRE (with Ryan Sievers)
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27:36
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Trump’s One Big Beautiful Bill is being negotiated in the Senate, and how it gets hammered out could have major implications for commercial real estate. The breadth of possible impacts are huge, from the return of bonus depreciation, which could finally make the math work on deals, to qualified business income deductions allowing CRE to write off m…
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151: "Takeover" vs. "Ether" (with FDSignifier!!)
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It is time to revisit one of the most storied rap beefs of all time! Between Pac vs. Biggie and Kendrick vs. Drake, we had Jay-Z vs. Nas, an absolutely vicious rap battle that seems almost quaint now. This was already debated to death in 2001 but we're going to relitigate it, so who actually had the best diss, Jay-Z's "Takeover" or Nas's "Ether"? S…
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First Draft Live Ep. 1: Pricing Deals In Uncertainty (with Greg Friedman)
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With the 10-year Treasury hovering near 5% and Trump’s $3T tax plan rattling the bond market, capital costs are surging — and CRE is feeling the heat. On this episode, Peachtree Group CEO Greg Friedman dove into how the rising 10-year Treasury is impacting deals, the challenge of supporting exit caps in a rapidly shifting environment, how extend an…
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Between economic whiplash, shifting policies and market volatility that changes by the hour, you need industry insights that cut through the noise. That's exactly why we're launching First Draft Live, a new weekly series that breaks down what's happening, why it matters and what you need to know to do better business. Join us live on Bisnow.com eve…
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150: "Let's Stay Together" vs. "Let's Get It On" (w/Marc Avery of WOLVES!)
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Two of the greatest soul songs -- heck, maybe *the* two greatest soul songs -- of the '70s??! And they both begin with the word "let's"? Well this is a matchup we have to do, so let's vote now, which preacher's son made the better classic lovemaking song, Al Green's "Let's Stay Together" or Marvin Gaye's "Let's Get It On"? See Privacy Policy at htt…
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149: "Back to Black" vs. "Someone Like You"
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Amy Winehouse and Adele. Two of the greatest vocalists who ever lived who also both happen to be British white girls. And they absolutely tore your guts out with the saddest song in their respective catalogs. So who did it better, Amy Winehouse's "Back to Black" or Adele's "Someone Like You"? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and Cali…
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148: "One Headlight" vs. "The Way" (w/Niko Stratis!)
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1:17:44
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If you listened to the radio in the late '90s, two rock bands had songs about driving and losing loved ones, and seemed to disappear immediately once the '90s ended. And we have Niko Stratis, author of "The Dad Rock That Made Me a Woman," to help up choose the best! What's the greatest adult alternative song of the late '90s, "One Headlight" by The…
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147: "Wake Me Up" vs. "Don't You Worry Child" (w/Kevin Anderson!)
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Get ready to feel the pulse and ride the wave because we're doing our EDM megahit matchup. But which of the biggest hits of 2013 from Swedish megastars drops the beat hardest, Avicii's "Wake Me Up" or Swedish House Mafia's "Don't You Worry Child"? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/pri…
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Strike a pose! Two of the biggest pop divas have a message for the world, but do we unite for Janet or do we move to the music for Madonna? Only one pop diva can be the biggest star of 1990, so let us debate which it is, is it Madonna's "Vogue" or Janet Jackson's "Rhythm Nation"? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privac…
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145: "Machinehead" vs. "Interstate Love Song" (w/Pat Finnerty!!)
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The second-wave of grunge arrives, and "What Makes This Song Stink"'s Pat Finnerty is here to explain if they stink! Bush were considered the poor man's Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots were the poor man's Pearl Jam, but has time shifted people's opinions? Let us decide if these songs stink as we debate Bush's "Machinehead" vs. STP's "Interstate Love S…
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144: "Billie Jean" vs. "When Doves Cry"
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THE EPIC MATCHUP. THE KING OF POP, vs. THE PURPLE ONE. Only one can be the reigning royalty, the titan of pop music of all time. So we are finally hashing it out for ever, WHO'S BAD, Michael Jackson or Prince, and whose biggest hit will reign supreme over the entirety of music, "Billie Jean" or "When Doves Cry"? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.…
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In the 2010s, a teenage girl songwriter came out of nowhere to completely redefine cool for the decade, upend the pop landscape and inspire legions of imitators. Twice. But only one of them can reign, so which teen anthem of the decade overwhelms you more with its effortless above-it-all teenage-ness, "Royals" by Lorde or "bad guy" by Billie Eilish…
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BONUS EPISODE: The 2025 Grammys were... GOOD?? Like, really good?! What??
1:16:48
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We're as shocked as you are, but the 2025 Grammys were actually worth watching this year. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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142: "My Sweet Lord" vs. "Spirit in the Sky"
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Remember when God was cool? In the early '70s, we had one legend and one nobody storm the charts about the greatness of the higher power, and we're going to see how gave glory to the Lord better? What's the better hippie-dippy religious song, George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord" or Norman Greenbaum's "Spirit in the Sky"? See Privacy Policy at https://…
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141: "Friday" vs. "Miracles" (with Andrew Unterberger)
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It's the meme songs of the early 2010s, made by people we look at very differently now! Did they deserve the derision they got? We dive into the agony and ecstasy of Rebecca Black's "Friday" vs. Insane Clown Posse's "Miracles"! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-…
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