In this episode, Julia speaks with Mai Chen, constitutional lawyer, author, and change-maker, about one of the most overlooked challenges of leading finding the energy to keep going when you feel stuck.

Mai reflects on what she calls “transcending worlds” - the process of shifting from one phase of life or leadership into another, especially after exhaustion or disappointment. She shares how energy, not time, is the true currency of leading, and how we often drain it trying to meet expectations, fit into old definitions of success, or push through without rest.

The conversation explores how to pause without guilt, rebuild momentum after burnout, and reconnect with a sense of purpose that feels alive again. Mai’s reflections remind us that the real work of leading isn’t just about direction, it’s about the Energy that sustains it.

Listen to this episode to learn how to regenerate Energy when you’re stuck, and how to transcend the worlds that no longer serve your growth.

About the Guest:

Dr Mai Chen (LLB(Hons)(Otago), (LLM(Harvard),HonLLD(Otago), CMInstD), is a top barrister in NZ and President of NZ Asian Lawyers. She was previously Managing Partner, Chen Palmer Public and Employment law Specialists, independent non-executive Director, Bank of New Zealand Board, New Zealand, a member of the New Zealand Securities Commission member, Adjunct Professor at the University of Auckland Business School and School of Government, the Inaugural Chair, NZ Global Women, and a top 10 finalist, 2014 and 2016 New Zealander of the Year