In today’s episode of Unravelling, host Kurt White sits down with Alette Smeullers, Professor of Criminal Law, Criminology, and International Crimes at the University of Groningen in The Netherlands. Professor Smeullers has spent decades trying to answer the question: What is it that makes people perpetrators of mass atrocities, and why do people follow such leaders? Together, they unravel the specifics of the Milgram Experiment, the mental health implications thereof, and what we can learn about ourselves from that field of work and research.

Alette is the author of the book “Perpetrators of Mass Atrocities: Terribly and Terrifyingly Normal?” (Routledge, 2024), as well as the co-host of a podcast by the same title. She believes that if we understand the true nature and causes of violence and mass atrocities, and understand who the perpetrators are, and why they commit such crimes, we may be in a much better position to prevent such horrific things from happening.

First They Came
Pastor Martin Niemöller

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Website:

https://alettesmeulers.org/en/home/

Book:

https://www.routledge.com/Perpetrators-of-Mass-Atrocities-Terribly-and-Terrifyingly-Normal/Smeulers/p/book/9781032568027?srsltid=AfmBOorPR1Ke5X_-mx2P8s8rOqQM19OAGa1xqF8phur7TR3W-bRRlCbW

Podcast:

https://www.rug.nl/rechten/actueel/in-de-media/podcasts/terribly-and-terrifyingly-normal/?lang=en

https://open.spotify.com/show/2Bt5Wg5nbekeSo8UBDI5MY

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/terribly-and-terrifyingly-normal/id1708596464