Is nonviolence truly the higher ground, or is that just a myth handed to the oppressed by those in power? In this fiercely honest and far-reaching conversation, South African lawyer, activist, and former parliamentarian Magdalene Moonsamy returns to the mic to confront the moral binaries surrounding resistance, liberation, and the cost of freedom.

The Violence–Nonviolence Trap
Magdalene unpacks the deep flaws in framing Malcolm X vs Gandhi as a binary. “It’s as if there are only two options,” she says, “but human beings have all kinds of contextual conditions.” This isn’t just theory — it’s about lived realities and who gets to define justice.

Calling Out Gandhi
In one of the episode’s most personal and confrontational moments, Magdalene critiques Gandhi’s legacy in South Africa, including the classism, the quiet partnerships with colonial powers, and the privileges enjoyed by some at the expense of the poor.

Beyond Strategy: What Is Liberation?
Whether through armed resistance or strategic negotiation, Magdalene argues, the focus must return to the people, their suffering, their agency, and their right to decide how they are to be fought. “The idea that we can police what kind of seed someone else should plant... where does that attitude come from?”

Licensing
Anyone can use this podcast for free, with attribution to Troublemakers (the podcast). It is held under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License and can be used for radio or any other media.

Acknowledgment
Our podcast is inspired by the Beautiful Trouble toolbox.

Beautiful Trouble: beautifultrouble.org
Credits

Host: Phil Wilmot
Guest: Magdalene Moonsamy
Producer & Editor: Rodgers George
Recording: Samora Machel Studio, MS TCDC
Music: Beautiful Trouble & Mwaduga Salum