When Is Dishonesty Justified? Tough Things First podcast

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When is Dishonesty Justified?

5d ago 8:42

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There are differing views on justifying dishonesty. Revenge or righting wrongs with more wrongs seems to be the default position of many these days. But in this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn says there is an honest answer to this question.

Rob Artigo: Ray, you recently wrote a musing that caught my attention. I thought this is surely going to be a good conversation because people need to hear it in modern times, we definitely need to be reminded of this. This is what you wrote. There is no legitimate excuse for dishonesty. In Victor Hugo’s famous story, Les Miserables, the main character, Jean Valjean, stole a loaf of bread because he was hungry. It was still dishonest for Jean Valjean to take something that wasn’t his just because he was trying to survive. We often try to rationalize dishonesty because of some reason we believe is for the better good. There is nothing good about being dishonest, no matter our motive.

We can choose between the lesser of two evils, but evil is still evil and we will need to live with the consequences. Just remember, we will need to live with the consequences of our choices, whether they are good or evil. And I would imagine, Ray, that the inspiration behind this was just seeing so many people, including politicians, justifying their actions by saying, well, because somebody else is doing something wrong, I have to do something wrong. And it ends up becoming a problem for everybody.

Ray Zinn: Yes. Last night I was talking with a friend of mine who was in the Vietnam War. He was in the trenches, as you would. He was over in Vietnam and actually fighting literally with a gun and a rifle or whatever. What was interesting was he felt because the Vietnamese were so dishonest, in other words, they didn’t follow, as you would, the Queensborough rules of conduct, as you would, that they were allowed then to do similar, in other words, fight fire with fire. And I thought that was kind of interesting because oftentimes we tend to fight fire with fire and rather than whether what we’re doing is honest, so is there an excuse to be dishonest or not to be doing what’s correct or right? I’m sure there is an excuse, but it doesn’t make it right just because we have a good excuse.

And I thought this would be good in this podcast to talk about, is there a good excuse to do something dishonest or not something that’s ethical? And we could get a lot of argument and people not agreeing with this, but it is worthwhile talking about how important is being totally honest. And I think that at the end of the day, no good deed goes unpunished and there’s a lot of truth to that. Often helping somebody else, you end up hurting yourself, as you would. We could get a lot of people disagreeing with, is there any reason to be dishonest? And I stand by my statement in my musing that there is no good reason to be dishonest.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. And just simply doing wrong. The saying is, ends justify the means. And I think we live in an era right now where a lot of people think it doesn’t matter really how bad my behavior is, if the end justifies the means, and whether that is stopping law enforcement from doing their jobs or setting a church on fire or something like that. People get it in their heads that whatever their motive is and whatever the end goal is, that they can do anything necessary. There’s even a protest organization out there called, By Any Means Necessary. Just in the name it’s very threatening. By any means necessary, and I think that that’s what you’re talking about here is that just because you feel like you’ve been wronged doesn’t mean you should go wrong other people.

Ray Zinn: Well, it’s that end justifies the means concept. As I said, I was talking to this friend of mine last night about his experience in Vietnam. We had certain rules and rules of engagement, as you would, and they wanted to go around those rules of engagement and kind of fight fire with fire, and it was difficult for them to not, as they call clipping in football, or there’s another term for it in hockey where you slam them up against the boards and anger is what drives people to do dishonest things, is really the root of it’s called anger. We deviate from our honesty, as you would, our integrity, when we’re angry. So to avoid doing that, you just try to avoid being angry. Try to look at the positive side, try to, as you would, let them slap the other side of your face, that biblical saying.

Rob Artigo: Yeah, turn the other cheek.

Ray Zinn: Right, strike, if they strike you on one side, turn the other side, let them strike you there. I know that sounds hard. I mean, I know that sounds bad. I know that some time ago a woman whose daughter was raped and murdered by, this is in Germany, this German mother, her daughter was raped and murdered by this criminal. She went into the court with a loaded gun and shot him seven times. Of course she’s going to pay for that. You say, is that justified? Is she justified taking this into her own hands? And some people would argue, yes. I mean, yeah, because he killed her daughter, then she had a right to kill him. That’s why we have rules. That’s why we have laws. If we don’t obey the laws, then we become a lawless society.

While I might empathize with that woman for wanting to kill or did kill that criminal, that murderer, we still have to follow the laws. I mean, it’s like going down the freeway. Just because you feel that the speed limit is not authorized or not correct, doesn’t mean you should go ahead and break it because you will pay a price for it. There’s no deed, no bad deed will not ultimately go unpunished. So they say that there’s no good deed that goes unpunished either, but certainly no bad deed will ultimately go unpunished.

Rob Artigo: Well, I’ll give you another saying as we wrap this up. When you first set out for an act of revenge, you first dig two graves because it’s going to be both of you that go down. I think that’s the lesson here is that if you try to correct a wrong or a perceived wrong and you do it by creating another wrong, then like you said here, you have to live with the consequences of your choices, good or evil.

Ray Zinn: That’s right.

Rob Artigo: Join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Your questions and comments are welcome. Follow Ray on X, Facebook and LinkedIn and pick up Ray’s books, Tough Things First. And as you know, the Zen of Zinn series is out there, one, two, and three. On sale now, The Essential Leader: 10 Skills, Attributes, and Fundamentals That Make Up the Essential Leader. Thanks, Ray.

Ray Zinn: Thanks, Rob.

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