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In this conversation, Lance Ford and Rob Wegner interview JR Woodward, the author of 'The Scandal of Leadership: Unmasking the Powers of Domination in the Church.' They discuss the concept of the powers, which include Satan, the demonic, and the principalities and powers. Woodward argues that the Western evangelical church has a weak theology of the powers, which leaves it vulnerable and deceived. He emphasizes the need for a deeper understanding of the powers, as they shape all of reality, including the social and personal. Woodward also explores the metaphor of a whirlpool to illustrate how the powers create a current that pulls people in and influences their behavior. The conversation explores the principalities of public image, institutions, and ideologies. It discusses how public image exists independent of a person and can lead to mental illness. It also examines how institutions seek ultimate allegiance and can become demonic when they exist for their own survival. The conversation delves into the temptations faced by Jesus and how they relate to identity, power, and control. It emphasizes the importance of finding our sense of significance in Christ and engaging the powers through our identity, praxis, and telos. The conversation concludes with a discussion on letting go and embracing self-emptying. In this final part of the conversation, JR Woodward discusses the concept of ideology as idolatry and the dangers of being captive to ideologies. He explains how ideologies have their own account of sin and redemption, as well as their own scapegoats. He emphasizes the need for a proper understanding of the kingdom of God and Jesus' way of bringing it about as the antidote to ideology. The conversation also touches on the powers at play in the current election cycle and the impact on the evangelical church in America.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Excitement for Season Three

02:52 JR Woodward's Story and Journey to Faith

08:02 Leading the V3 Church Planting Movement

13:01 The Scandal of Leadership: Unmasking the Powers of Domination in the Church

16:21 Understanding the Powers: Satan, the Demonic, and the Principalities

22:35 The Whirlpool Effect: How the Powers Influence and Pull People In

23:56 The Image, Institution, and Ideology of the Powers

27:02 The Danger of Institutions

34:45 Engaging the Powers: Temptations and Identity

43:44 Letting Go and Embracing Self-Emptying

46:24 Ideology as Idolatry

49:21 The Antidote to Ideology

57:02 Mimetic Desire and the Scapegoat Mechanism

01:01:42 The Uniqueness of the Bible

01:05:30 Leadership Rooted in Imitating Jesus