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Ep. 329 - Security Awareness Series - Mistakes, AI and Empathy: Being a Powerful Leader with Michelle Li
Manage episode 519835755 series 2394563
Today on the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Security Awareness Series, Chris is joined by Michelle Li. Chris and Michelle delve into the transformative role of AI in social engineering, highlighting both its potential and pitfalls. Their conversation emphasizes the critical need for empathy in leadership and the importance of maintaining human-centric processes in an increasingly automated world. [Nov 17, 2025]
00:00 - Intro
00:27 - Intro Links:
- Social-Engineer.com - http://www.social-engineer.com/
- Offensive Security Vishing Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/vishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fvishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166287612%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NXq0Bl03cTcJ9v241KDulliLiORyyzXl2KzzlYgYEiM%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/vishing/
- Offensive Security SMiShing Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fsmishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166308476%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=DxB3413PhERNnL8jfS7bqn4SR2K8a91Xd1mgdp4I6uI%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/
- Offensive Security Phishing Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fsmishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166318797%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=189JBtHVKoEadOdMEEC5jgfys8%2BYKeuLtGuc6lmGJOw%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/
- Call Back Phishing - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/call-back-phishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fcall-back-phishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166328468%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=C%2FttWKvmWgXSpgeB9DJ29fBzVKATgcsEdrPPoZO26Uc%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/call-back-phishing/
- Adversarial Simulation Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/adversarial-simulation/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fadversarial-simulation%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166340710%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CqdidOE8%2FFrhVu3xln47vizcVspZBGqCExPImdQP3rs%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/adversarial-simulation/
- Social Engineering Risk Assessments - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/social-engineering-risk-assessment/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fsocial-engineering-risk-assessment%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166352842%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=daatLzSDbbo32qUTEfe7VDURN1oT4XE%2FsJ2nxH5LnjY%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/social-engineering-risk-assessment/
- Social-Engineer channel on SLACK - https://social-engineering-hq.slack.com/ssb
- CLUTCH - http://www.pro-rock.com/
- innocentlivesfoundation.org - http://www.innocentlivesfoundation.org/
02:34 - Michelle Li Intro
03:14 - A Roundabout Journey
05:40 - The Importance of Legacy
07:26 - Using AI Honorably
10:00 - The Effects of AI on Social Engineering
11:52 - AI for Protection
13:47 - Still About the Human Role
14:49 - Masterclass Ad
16:27 - Origins of FASE
20:01 - Reflection of Self
25:52 - The Role of Core Principles
30:15 - New Kid in Town
34:08 - Find Michelle Li Online
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-li-mba-ssbb-0850b975/
- Website: https://www.bisblox.com/
34:47 - Book Recommendations
- Blink - Malcolm Gladwell
- The Book of Forgiving - Desmond Tutu
36:11 - Mentors
38:52 - Wrap Up & Outro
324 episodes
Manage episode 519835755 series 2394563
Today on the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Security Awareness Series, Chris is joined by Michelle Li. Chris and Michelle delve into the transformative role of AI in social engineering, highlighting both its potential and pitfalls. Their conversation emphasizes the critical need for empathy in leadership and the importance of maintaining human-centric processes in an increasingly automated world. [Nov 17, 2025]
00:00 - Intro
00:27 - Intro Links:
- Social-Engineer.com - http://www.social-engineer.com/
- Offensive Security Vishing Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/vishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fvishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166287612%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NXq0Bl03cTcJ9v241KDulliLiORyyzXl2KzzlYgYEiM%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/vishing/
- Offensive Security SMiShing Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fsmishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166308476%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=DxB3413PhERNnL8jfS7bqn4SR2K8a91Xd1mgdp4I6uI%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/
- Offensive Security Phishing Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fsmishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166318797%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=189JBtHVKoEadOdMEEC5jgfys8%2BYKeuLtGuc6lmGJOw%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/
- Call Back Phishing - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/call-back-phishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fcall-back-phishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166328468%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=C%2FttWKvmWgXSpgeB9DJ29fBzVKATgcsEdrPPoZO26Uc%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/call-back-phishing/
- Adversarial Simulation Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/adversarial-simulation/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fadversarial-simulation%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166340710%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CqdidOE8%2FFrhVu3xln47vizcVspZBGqCExPImdQP3rs%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/adversarial-simulation/
- Social Engineering Risk Assessments - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/social-engineering-risk-assessment/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fsocial-engineering-risk-assessment%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166352842%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=daatLzSDbbo32qUTEfe7VDURN1oT4XE%2FsJ2nxH5LnjY%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/social-engineering-risk-assessment/
- Social-Engineer channel on SLACK - https://social-engineering-hq.slack.com/ssb
- CLUTCH - http://www.pro-rock.com/
- innocentlivesfoundation.org - http://www.innocentlivesfoundation.org/
02:34 - Michelle Li Intro
03:14 - A Roundabout Journey
05:40 - The Importance of Legacy
07:26 - Using AI Honorably
10:00 - The Effects of AI on Social Engineering
11:52 - AI for Protection
13:47 - Still About the Human Role
14:49 - Masterclass Ad
16:27 - Origins of FASE
20:01 - Reflection of Self
25:52 - The Role of Core Principles
30:15 - New Kid in Town
34:08 - Find Michelle Li Online
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-li-mba-ssbb-0850b975/
- Website: https://www.bisblox.com/
34:47 - Book Recommendations
- Blink - Malcolm Gladwell
- The Book of Forgiving - Desmond Tutu
36:11 - Mentors
38:52 - Wrap Up & Outro
324 episodes
All episodes
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