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The Seed that Needs Fire: Paul Hawken on Why the Climate Movement Failed & What Now

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Manage episode 501247728 series 1449500
Content provided by Anthony James. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Anthony James or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://podcastplayer.com/legal.

Back on Earth Day in April 2024, we started our journey of the Americas with friend of the podcast, legendary best-selling author, Paul Hawken. It was just ahead of the release of his latest book, Carbon: The Book of Life. So we recorded a podcast in his incredible garden about it (along with some other life story stuff).

Later we thought it could be good to record a pod just walking and talking around the steeply sloped streets of his local neighbourhood, among the redwoods - see what this tallest of tree species had to say too. Alas, with both our travels at the time, we didn’t get to it. But having managed to return to northern California a few weeks ago, ahead of flying back to Australia, we did.

And as it happens, Paul’s next book is in full flow. Working title? 'Upstream: Why the climate movement failed and where to from here'. Given this is by the bloke who compiled best-selling volumes Drawdown and Regeneration, this seemed as good a place to start as any - after the redwoods introduce themselves. And after arriving at a powerful analogy for our times, we converge at the end on, well, the wisdom of Dolly Parton.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 26 July 2025.

Title slide photo by Olivia Cheng.

For more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Upcoming events.

Music:

The River, by Peter Cavallo (sourced on Artlist).

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Pre-roll music: Heartland Rebel, by Steven Beddall (sourced from Artlist).

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. We'd love you to join us.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

While you can also visit The RegenNarration shop. Come to an event. And please do share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

  continue reading

Chapters

1. Walking Through Redwood Forest (00:00:00)

2. Why the Climate Movement Failed (00:07:25)

3. Upstream Thinking vs Downstream Solutions (00:14:30)

4. Are we just naturally inclined to tap as much energy as we can? (00:17:11)

5. The delusion that we’re in an energy transition (00:18:23)

6. Where to go from here? (00:23:05)

7. Another wasted COP coming up? (00:24:35)

8. The Fire and Fire-Triggered Succession as a Metaphor for Our Times (00:28:28)

9. Ghostbusting analogy for carbon capture (00:33:35)

10. Striking evidence of the seed that needs fire (00:41:22)

11. People ask don’t you feel grief? (00:44:35)

12. Blessed Unrest Redux (00:46:20)

13. What continues to motivate Paul to write after all this time (00:48:50)

14. Trying to find the story amidst the zeitgeist (00:52:05)

15. Paul’s take on MAHA and MAGA right now (00:57:20)

16. Parallel democratic resurgence around the US mirroring Australia’s (01:03:45)

17. A wisdom teacher in Dolly Parton? (01:07:05)

18. Farewells (01:13:50)

392 episodes

Artwork
iconShare
 
Manage episode 501247728 series 1449500
Content provided by Anthony James. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Anthony James or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://podcastplayer.com/legal.

Back on Earth Day in April 2024, we started our journey of the Americas with friend of the podcast, legendary best-selling author, Paul Hawken. It was just ahead of the release of his latest book, Carbon: The Book of Life. So we recorded a podcast in his incredible garden about it (along with some other life story stuff).

Later we thought it could be good to record a pod just walking and talking around the steeply sloped streets of his local neighbourhood, among the redwoods - see what this tallest of tree species had to say too. Alas, with both our travels at the time, we didn’t get to it. But having managed to return to northern California a few weeks ago, ahead of flying back to Australia, we did.

And as it happens, Paul’s next book is in full flow. Working title? 'Upstream: Why the climate movement failed and where to from here'. Given this is by the bloke who compiled best-selling volumes Drawdown and Regeneration, this seemed as good a place to start as any - after the redwoods introduce themselves. And after arriving at a powerful analogy for our times, we converge at the end on, well, the wisdom of Dolly Parton.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 26 July 2025.

Title slide photo by Olivia Cheng.

For more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Upcoming events.

Music:

The River, by Peter Cavallo (sourced on Artlist).

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Pre-roll music: Heartland Rebel, by Steven Beddall (sourced from Artlist).

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. We'd love you to join us.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

While you can also visit The RegenNarration shop. Come to an event. And please do share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

  continue reading

Chapters

1. Walking Through Redwood Forest (00:00:00)

2. Why the Climate Movement Failed (00:07:25)

3. Upstream Thinking vs Downstream Solutions (00:14:30)

4. Are we just naturally inclined to tap as much energy as we can? (00:17:11)

5. The delusion that we’re in an energy transition (00:18:23)

6. Where to go from here? (00:23:05)

7. Another wasted COP coming up? (00:24:35)

8. The Fire and Fire-Triggered Succession as a Metaphor for Our Times (00:28:28)

9. Ghostbusting analogy for carbon capture (00:33:35)

10. Striking evidence of the seed that needs fire (00:41:22)

11. People ask don’t you feel grief? (00:44:35)

12. Blessed Unrest Redux (00:46:20)

13. What continues to motivate Paul to write after all this time (00:48:50)

14. Trying to find the story amidst the zeitgeist (00:52:05)

15. Paul’s take on MAHA and MAGA right now (00:57:20)

16. Parallel democratic resurgence around the US mirroring Australia’s (01:03:45)

17. A wisdom teacher in Dolly Parton? (01:07:05)

18. Farewells (01:13:50)

392 episodes

All episodes

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