In this episode, Samuel Arbesman speaks with Edward Ashton. Edward Ashton is a science fiction writer and the author of numerous novels, including Mickey7, which became the basis for the movie Mickey 17. His most recent novel is The Fourth Consort, a fascinating first contact story that touches upon many different topics, from humanity’s uniqueness to how to think about interstellar confederations.

Arbesman and Ashton discuss the origins of The Fourth Consort, the science fiction features Ashton was playing with and subverting, and why science fiction shouldn’t simplify alien species or human beings. They also explore the unique features of humanity, the power of storytelling and its role in humanity’s triumph on Earth, the qualities that allow for technological intelligence, and much more. Their conversation even touches on the dark forest theory, underestimating humans, interstellar federations and the exploitation of other species, as well as other authors and works Ashton recommends.