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Join hosts Matt, Shawn, and Melanie as they dive into complex, interconnected themes of freedom, power dynamics, and the difficult relationship between morality and economics.

The conversation starts by challenging the idea that freedom is simply the "power to make choices," drawing on the philosophy of Victor Frankl to discuss the unchangeable freedom of response that exists even in the most oppressive circumstances.

• The Economics of Immorality: The hosts examine the historical argument that slavery was a foundational economic engine for the US, using this as a moral challenge: How can we avoid turning a blind eye to modern immoral practices when they are economically beneficial?
• Morality vs. Policy: Does the looming expiration of Obamacare subsidies reveal a moral obligation to care for the sick and poor, or is it purely a political question driven by economics? The discussion sparks debate on whether government-created problems (like rising healthcare costs due to regulation) necessitate government-led solutions.
• Policing Intentions & Entrapment: A deep dive into the ethics of police sting operations (such as enticing a child over the internet), questioning the morality of punishing intent when no actual harm has occurred, and the effectiveness of focusing on "low-hanging fruit" versus systemic issues like sex trafficking.
• Debt and Latter-day Saints Culture: The hosts tackle recent data showing that high-Latter-day Saint-population states like Idaho and Utah have the highest debt-to-income ratios in the US.
  • Is President Gordon B. Hinckley's 1998 counsel to avoid debt and "live modestly" outdated in today's housing and economic climate?
  • Shawn and Melanie debate the role of the housing market, a culture of "keeping up with the Joneses," and generational spending habits (Millennials/Gen Z spending on luxury cars, travel, and phones) in driving up personal consumer debt.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Audio Quality Discussion
02:20 Power Dynamics and Freedom
07:09 Slavery's Economic Impact on America
10:13 Moral Questions of Agency and Economics
17:44 Healthcare: A Moral or Political Question?
32:52 Government's Role in Problem Solving
37:27 Morality of Law Enforcement Tactics
45:25 Debt and Financial Responsibility in Society
54:51 Generational Perspectives on Debt and Spending