Crafting Stories, Finding Readers And Selling Direct With Ines Johnson The Creative Penn Podcast For Writers podcast

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Crafting Stories, Finding Readers And Selling Direct With Ines Johnson

1d ago 1:06:49

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Have you ever dreamed of turning a passion for storytelling into a profitable, long-term career? How do you build multiple successful author brands without burning out? What marketing strategies actually work in today's fast-changing industry? Ines Johnson shares her journey and the secrets to her success.

In the intro, 5 phases of an author business [Becca Syme]; Lessons from writing every day for two decades [Ryan Holiday]; What the First AI Copyright Ruling Means for Authors [ALLi Podcast];

Plus, Lichfield Cathedral; The Buried and the Drowned Short Story Collection; and 50% off all my JFPenn ebooks and audiobooks and digital bundles for July 25.

Write and format stunning books with Atticus. Create professional print books and eBooks easily with the all-in-one book writing software. Try it out at Atticus.io

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Ines Johnson is a romance author with over a hundred books spanning paranormal, urban fantasy, contemporary, and erotica, as well as sweet romance under another pen name.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below.

Show Notes

From funk band upbringing to TV, teaching and writing
Writing faster as a trained screenwriter
Staying within your lane — depending on your goals
The business of writing, and planning income and progress
AIDA for marketing — Attention, Interest, Desire, Action
Kickstarter for PageTurner Planning
Selling direct and the experience you bring to readers
The joys of Romancelandia

You can find Ines at InesWrites.com or InesWrites.substack.com.

Transcript of Interview with Ines Johnson

Joanna: Ines Johnson is a romance author with over a hundred books spanning paranormal, urban fantasy, contemporary, and erotica, as well as sweet romance under another pen name. Welcome to the show, Ines.

Ines: Hi, Jo. Thank you so much for having me.

Joanna: I'm excited to talk to you today. First up—

Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into writing and publishing.

Ines: I grew up in a funk band; that's always my truth. My father was the bass player, and one of my formative memories was of him explaining music composition to me.

He explained how the keyboard had its part and would tell a story, the drums had a part and would tell a story, and then finally the vocalists came on and they told a different story.

He showed me how all of these worked together to make the story complete, to be the characters. It was from that moment I knew I was supposed to be in storytelling. I thought I was going to be a singer, but my daddy said, “Oh, sweetie, no, you're not going to be a singer.”

So I started first in television, and then I found my way into novel writing. I worked in cable television for a number of years for National Geographic Television, on the Explorer show, which was before they had a channel. I loved that; we met so many fascinating people from all around the world.

Then I started to work in children's television. While I was working in children's television, I was also an avid reader, which I have been since I was very young.

There are pictures of my youngest aunt corralling me and my cousins off the city bus and into the library. Going to the library and being able to take books home was the best thing ever.

But my godmother, who lived a few blocks up the street, had a pantry where you’re supposed to keep boxes of pasta and cans of beans. She didn't have that. Instead, she had all these teeny tiny little Harlequins and Silhouettes; that was my second library.

She said I could take and read whatever I wanted, and I did. She didn't try to censor me because, back then, the love scene was when the waves would crash!

I read those books and it became an absolute addiction for me, and it stayed with me even when I was working in television. When I went on to work in children's television, I was reading Twilight in between reading scripts for the show.

The writing bug bit me. I would be writing screenplays in Final Draft, then switch over to Word or eventually Scrivener and work on a novel. It took me years for that first novel to be recognizable as a piece of literature. It has not seen the light of day, but that was fine.

After the first one, I wrote the next one in a year, the next in six months, the next in three months, and now I'm a whole lot faster than that. But I always like to preface my “speed” with the fact that I'm a trained screenwriter. We would do 13 scripts per season, two seasons per year. That's a normal pace for me.

My brain doesn't think it's supposed to take a year or more to write a novel. No, you need to have this full script, this part of the story, done in the time you have.

Joanna: That is really interesting. I think people who come from screenwriting or journalism are fast writers because they're used to deadlines. It’s a job, you do the work, and there are the words. I get that.

When did you first decide to self-publish?

Ines: I first self-published in December 2014. I published a three-part serial, as it was really popular to do serial books back then. It was the era of KU 1.0, where you got paid the same no matter how long or short the book was.

That worked for me because that's how my mind is; I don't think in terms of a feature film, I think in episodes. So I started to write these shorter stories, and they did well, and then I just wrote more and more.

At the time, I only wrote romance, but I didn't understand genres or tropes. I started writing a dystopian, then a sci-fi, then a paranormal. I was going all over the place, and each time I was building a new audience that wouldn't follow to the next genre.

The people that read the dystopian were not interested in the contemporary, and so on. It didn't make sense to me until other authors pulled me up by my bootstraps and said, “Girlfriend, let me give you some advice.”

That's the beautiful thing about the romance author community. They told me,

“It's fantastic that you keep finding an audience, but you want to try to retain them. One of the ways to do that is to pick a lane and stay in it.”

I was crisscrossing too many lanes on the highway to keep my readers.

That's when I decided pen names were for me because I didn't want to limit myself, so I just made more than one.

Joanna: I know that people don't cross over and it's so weird, isn't it? Because I think many writers, myself included, read so many different genres. So I don't really understand people who only read one.

How have the pen names worked for you and how do you keep multiple names going?

Ines: For the folks that are listening, I think the vast majority of readers probably read a handful of books a year. Indies aren't focused on the masses like that. We're very focused on the ‘whale readers,' the ones that read a book a day. I'm a whale reader; I read one to two books a day.

A lot of these whale readers are often mood readers, so you don't necessarily have to pick a lane and stay in it forever. For a period of time, they may only want one specific thing. Right now, I'm in a contemporary mood. Next week I'll be in a historical mood, and after that, I might be in a sci-fi mood.

However, if you want a faster route to profitability, picking a lane is a strategy that works. It's just a strategy, and it's a strategy that works if you're looking at profitability.

If you are an artist, then you don't have to listen to this advice. You have to determine what you want out of your career, and that's the lane you need to pick.

If your goal requires you to be a very focused genre writer, then you do that.

If you are a different kind of writer and you want to write across various spectrums, you just need to set your goals accordingly.

Find the right readers, and then stay on your beautiful highway.

Joanna: Apart from focus, what are the other mistakes that either you've made yourself or that you see others make?

Ines: The main mistake I see… well, one person's mistake can be another person's boon. I feel that if you understand who you are, what you want, and what your goals are, you make fewer mistakes. They just become opportunities.

For me, you are not going to see me talking about politics in my books. I'm trying to escape it as much as I possibly can. But I see other authors who embrace it wholeheartedly, and the readers love them for it.

I see authors who post very personal things on social media. I am not that girl. I keep a lot of things close to my chest. You'll feel like you know me, but you couldn't tell a lot of actual facts about me after a conversation.

I don't suffer from that because I know what my limits are. For other authors, that’s a mistake for them because they go too far. I really think it becomes about understanding who you are and what you want because this industry changes so fast you will get whiplash.

The thing that stays the same is you, your goals, and why you're doing this. If you can keep that close to your chest, any potential mistake becomes an opportunity that you can really see and dig deep into to make the best of it.

Joanna: You mentioned you started in KU, but now you are selling direct as well as publishing wide. A lot of people think all romance authors are just KU authors.

Tell us about selling direct and wide.

Ines: I started in KU because I didn't understand how to upload to the other retailers. Eventually, I learned, but I'm always looking at my goals, and my pen names have different goals.

My Ines Johnson pen name mostly writes paranormal and fantasy. My Shanae Johnson pen name is the queen of wholesome romance. She sticks to her lane. Those are my two main pen names.

Shanae can be wide because if you look on Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, or Google Play, you can see genres like contemporary western, military, and small-town romance. Those are universal.

Genres like paranormal romance, paranormal women's fiction, and reverse harem were born on Amazon. Those specific categories were born there.

So I'm always watching not only what the industry is doing but what the readers are doing and where they are.

Shanae could go into KU with her clean and wholesome romance, but why, when there are readers everywhere? Ines could come out of KU, but why, when the readers for her genres are concentrated right there?

And yes, I am selling direct.

I sell more print books direct than I do on Amazon, and the margins are better for me there.

When you're selling direct, you have to think about how you are different.

Amazon can't do everything. Amazon can't sell you the ebook, the audiobook, the print book, a special edition, and a swag pack all in one bundle.

For one Kickstarter I did for a spicy romance, I sold the ebook, the print book, and the audiobook. I also sold a webinar. Inside the book, there were some spicy scenes that dealt with rope play, so I got an expert to come on and give my readers a special demonstration, and they all got some rope. You can't do that on Amazon.

You can give a completely different experience. You can have tea parties. You can build a book box with all kinds of amazing goodies. A friend of mine who's really crafty made objects for her readers to go with the book. You can't do that on Amazon.

Direct is an experience. It's about bundles and creating an experience you can give your readers.

Joanna: You’ve got a Kickstarter campaign coming for Page Turner Planning.

Tell us about that and any tips for people who want to run a Kickstarter.

Ines: You really have to know yourself, your why, and your lane.

My number one strength on the CliftonStrengths chart is discipline. I like doing the same thing over and over again. My number two strength is achiever. I have to achieve; I have to evolve; I have to win something new. For the longest time, those two just clashed.

I'm a planner. Every day I get up—and I have a number of journals—every day, I get up and I record my data. It costs me about $2,500 to $3,000 a month to cover my living expenses, which is about $80 a day.

So I sit down in my little journal and I go through and check the dashboards to see how much I've earned, and I write the numbers down. I'm not just writing it down from Amazon because I'm wide, so I write all the numbers down.

I don't put it in a spreadsheet; I just write them down, and that calms my mind. It reminds me, “Yes, you can do this self-employed thing. You can do this small business thing. You are fine. You have made the money to cover your expenses. You're good. Now, go have fun.” And that's where my muse starts to write the book.

When I'm on retreats, people look over my shoulder and ask me about my planners. I record my word count, what's going on in the story… I have tons of different journals for all this information. It's really anti-anxiety for me.

Two years ago, I started a little mastermind where I was showing people how to write with pacing, how I marketed, and all the prep work I did before the book was even out—how I set up my Instagram, my website, my newsletter.

I also knew I needed to go to the bank and get a DBA, which became an LLC, then maybe an S Corp. Because I have a couple of degrees in education, I figured out how to deliver the information in a logical sequence.

I would talk to them once a week about what they should be thinking about in their writing, their business, their branding, and their marketing.

As I was supposed to be writing Page Retention, the second book in my Page Turner series, I looked back at all this content from the mastermind—more than 52 weeks' worth—and said, “This is a book.”

I turned that two-year-long experiment of helping people write their book, build their business, and market themselves into a planner. And that's Page Turner Planning.

Joanna: That's really useful.

How does a Kickstarter work? Why is the pre-launch page so important?

Ines: Kickstarter says you're going to pull some people from your audience, but you're going to pull a lot of new people to you. These new people don't know you, so you have to introduce yourself and build trust.

I'm asking you for money for something that came from my brain. In this instance, it's a product that will benefit you, but you don't know me. I could be making all this stuff up.

So the pre-launch page is to give you sneak peeks and to build trust. Once you have those things, people are more likely to come on board and give you a try.

Joanna: What other things did you learn from your past Kickstarters that might help other people?

Ines: The first thing is fear. I was terrified to run my first Kickstarter. We're both introverts who probably like to sit in our houses and write our books. I don't like to put my business out there, but when you do something like Kickstarter, you're putting your business out there for everyone to see, whether it succeeds or fails.

My very first Kickstarter was with my sweet pen name, Shanae Johnson, who has a huge audience. I got 30 backers. I limped my way to funding that Kickstarter and was all kinds of confused. I was very hesitant to do a second one. I had to do a lot of mindset work before I did the Page Turner Pacing Kickstarter.

The best thing I did was talking about it before it launched. These people didn't know me. I had to show them that I knew what I was talking about first. Once people saw that and I was giving them free tidbits to try, that's what worked.

Having tiers where they could just try something out and see… over 700 people backed that Kickstarter, Joanna. I'm still breathless over it. I had to have a moment to convince them, or maybe I convinced their friends, that I know what I'm talking about and that I'm really here to help.

Joanna: In terms of book marketing, what have you kept doing since 2014, and what have you changed?

Ines: I get these bursts of energy where I figure something out and I just want to tell everybody, because I truly want us all to win. So when you see me showing up on Instagram or TikTok, it's because I figured something out and I want to show everybody. But then once I've told you, I go away.

I'm always writing. You will not find me without a piece of paper and a pen. So things like Substack really work for me because I have so much to write about on the nonfiction side.

In terms of marketing —

My number one piece of marketing advice is to find one new reader every single day.

I might find them using an AMS ad, a Facebook ad, an Instagram post, or at a book signing. Every day, I'm looking for just one new reader.

To distill what I learned in television, we used a formula called AIDA: Attention, Interest, Desire, and Action. That's really what marketing is to me.

How are you going to get people's attention?

You could use a startling statement, music, or color theory. We learned so much psychology on how to keep you in your seat.

Then, interest starts the storytelling bit of your advertising. Then you play on people's desires—we mostly deal with emotional desires. And finally, you have to tell them to act with a call to action. That's what marketing boils down to, whether you're on TikTok, Instagram, or hand-selling in person.

Joanna: What has stayed the same? I still have an email list, which has been the core.

Do you think Substack has replaced email marketing for you?

Ines: My Substack is purely nonfiction, but I email my fiction list every week.

The thing that has stayed the same for me is consistency. I consistently publish. I'm consistently telling stories. I'm consistently talking to my audience.

I don't stop. I'm consistently promoting.

Things in this industry change, but the part of you that doesn't change is your goal to succeed. You just have to change how you're going to succeed based upon what is moving and shaking in the industry. It's that consistency and just showing up and using AIDA.

Joanna: How much is paid advertising a part of your marketing strategy?

Ines: It's very much a part of my marketing strategy. I am always looking for where the readers are. If you tell me I can go on Facebook, where there are a lot of readers who read the books I write, and all I have to do is pay some money to talk to them, I'm going to pay. How else am I going to find them? It gets harder.

I'm thankful for paid advertising. Yes, I'm going to do social media. Yes, I'm going to do paid cost-per-click marketing. Yes, I'm going to do paid newsletters. Yes, I'm going to purchase a table at a signing event because guess who's there? The readers.

My dad always says it takes money to make money, so I came into this business knowing that I was going to have to spend. I have my thresholds and I know when it's not worth it, but I don't think we can expect to come into a business and just start making money for free.

Joanna: You've been doing this for over a decade and have seen people leave the industry.

Why are you still here and still so upbeat?

Ines: I'm unemployable, Joanna!

But it really goes back to my dad and that lesson I learned about how story works. I feel that's why I succeeded: because I understand how story works at a granular level. That's what I try to tell people.

It's because I studied the art form that I so love, and I never stop studying. I feel like every book I write is me practicing a new lesson. What am I going to study today?

Maybe I watched a television show and they did something with an unreliable narrator, and I think, “I want to try that.” I will break that down, looking for the structure, the way that I was taught to look in screenwriting, and then I will write that book.

I think I'm still here because I understood structure and I'm a consistent, permanent student of the structure of story.

Also business. I came from corporate television—National Geographic, Discovery Channel—so I always understood that I will not be a success unless I find the audience and get my product in front of them.

Joanna: Let's come back to romance. It still feels like there's some kind of stigma in the mainstream.

What do you say to authors who love romance but are scared of writing it because of what people might say?

Ines: Joanna, this is when my feral Gen X is about to come out. Seriously, if you are afraid, I don't think you should do it.

If you don't believe in “feel the fear and do it anyway,” then don't do it. Do something else, because the romance readers will smell it on you. We are also feral creatures.

I so often forget that there is a stigma outside of Romancelandia because the party inside is so loud, it's on and popping, and we're all cheering each other on. We don't come outside a lot, and when we do, we're like, “Why are you guys out here? Come inside, it's great in here!”

So, if you are not in the Romancelandia community, get yourself there. But if, after you see what it’s like, you're still scared, don't do it. That's fine. You do not have to write romance. You can write something with a romantic element, and that might do better for you.

Joanna: If someone wants to come inside Romancelandia, how do they do that?

Ines: If you have a romance bookstore in your area, go. I just did my first trip to The Ripped Bodice in New York, and when I walked in those doors, I was like, “Oh, I'm home.” That's what it feels like.

Go to the romance section of your library; you'll find a friend. Go to the romance section of your bookstore; trust me, you will find a friend. I don't know what it is about the people in this world, but as soon as we see you next to us and you pick up a book, we have something to say! “Girl, not that one. You need to read this one instead!”

If that's not enough, or if you don't have a bookstore with a romance section, look up romance conferences. Look up Romance Writers of America; even though they've struggled, there are still pockets of groups and chapters that have broken off that want to talk to you and will welcome you inside.

I really feel like it's like when you get a new car and all of a sudden you see your car everywhere on the road. If you speak romance into the world and say you want a romance book sister, she will find you.

Joanna: We are out of time.

Where can people find you and your books and your Kickstarter online?

Ines: If you are an author, you'll want to go and read my Substack. I've got tons of content there, so go to ineswrites.substack.com.

If you want to read any of my books, you can go to ineswrites.com for the paranormal and fantasy—all spicy, so gird your loins! If you want to read something clean and wholesome that you can share with your mom or your auntie, then you'll go to shanaejohnson.com.

The Kickstarter should be findable on Substack or my site, but the direct link is ineswrites.com/kickstarter for the Page Turner Planning campaign.

Joanna: Thank you so much for your time, Ines. That was great.

Ines: Thank you so much.

The post Crafting Stories, Finding Readers And Selling Direct With Ines Johnson first appeared on The Creative Penn.

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