Today Mary Beth Hosking interviews Professor Martin Parr about his innovative approach to transforming organizations. They explore how systems thinking enables organizations to identify high-leverage interventions that produce meaningful change with minimal effort. Martin shares practical examples from government projects and discusses how this holistic method improves decision-making, reduces waste, and enhances impact. They also critique the overuse and misuse of digital transformations in organizations, advocating instead for people-centred, systems-based change.