If you’re tired of feeling like growth only happens through more visibility, more cold outreach, and chasing leads, this episode will feel like a breath of fresh air.

I sat down with Dan Englander, founder of Sales Schema and author of Relationship Sales at Scale, to talk about how agency owners can grow through collaborative, trust-based relationships instead of transactional tactics. Both of us work in the agency space and believe that trust drives sustainable growth, but we approach it from two different angles.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why cold outreach has created a wider trust gap (and what to do instead)
• How referrals can become a collaborative system, not a happy accident
• Why personalization alone isn’t enough and how to use real commonalities to build relevance
• Why founders still need to lead the relationship-building work before passing it off
• How specialization helps you connect faster and build mutual credibility with peers and prospects

If you want to grow through meaningful introductions, mutual support, and the power of your relationships instead of chasing leads, this conversation will leave you energized and equipped.

Get the full show notes and more information here: https://audreyjoykwan.com/podcast/ep135
Podcast Edits by Lindsay Curtis