Stablecoins, then and now. Host Rex Kirshner sits down with Sam Kazemian, founder of Frax, to trace the anthropology of stablecoins from seigniorage-share thought experiments and DeFi flywheels to today’s issuer platforms, “genius-compatible” collateral, and vertically-integrated payment rails. They unpack lessons from the Terra collapse, why Frax split payment vs. yield-bearing units (FRAX vs. sFRAX), and how issuance partnerships became the new Curve wars.

The second half gets spicy: stock (TVL/yield) vs. flow (payments/settlement) business models, whether branded stables like Hyperliquid’s USDH make sense, and a pragmatic take on CBDCs (“good” vs. Orwellian versions), exit/rage-quit guarantees back to credibly neutral chains, and what real decentralization must withstand—both technically and societally.