In this episode, Max Bernstein sits down with Benjamin Groff, a music publishing veteran with over 30 years of experience and owner of BRILL BUILDING MUSIC PUBLISHING LLC, to discuss his journey through the music industry, the changing landscape of music publishing, and how aspiring artists and songwriters can make their mark. Benjamin shares insights from his time at major companies such as BMG, EMI, and Kobalt, where he helped shape the modern music publishing landscape.

He talks about the importance of discovering raw talent, the challenges of staying relevant in a fast-changing industry, and how his publishing company, Brill Building, is helping the next generation of artists. Benjamin also offers a candid take on the current state of songwriting and provides valuable advice for artists looking to succeed in today’s market, whether they use TikTok or stick to traditional methods.

Key Takeaways

• The Kobalt Revolution: How Kobalt Music Publishing disrupted the industry with transparency and technology, and how Benjamin played a key role in its early success.
• Spotting Raw Talent: Benjamin discusses how he identifies the potential in songwriters and artists, even before they become household names.
• Adapting to Industry Changes: The impact of evolving production styles and how great songs can remain timeless despite changing musical tastes.
• The State of Songwriting Today: Why Benjamin believes the caliber of songwriting today doesn’t match previous decades and the challenges facing modern songwriters.
• Independent Artists and Publishing: Why independent artists are thriving in today’s music business, and how to build a career without relying on major record labels.

[00:00] – Introduction to Benjamin Groff and his early career

[02:00] – How Kobalt Music Publishing revolutionized the industry

[05:20] – Why Benjamin left Kobalt to start Brill Building

[06:55] – The risks Benjamin took with his first big signing and how it paid off

[09:30] – How Benjamin identifies talent and what he looks for in a great song

[11:55] – The evolution of music and why some songs remain timeless

[14:30] – The state of modern songwriting and how quality has changed

[16:12] – How independent artists can succeed without a record deal

[20:43] – Benjamin’s book Sign Yourself and advice for songwriters

[25:40] – Closing thoughts on the future of music publishing and mentorship

Follow Our Guest, Benjamin Groff

• Benjamin’s Website: https://www.brillbuilding.com/about
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-groff/
• BRILL BUILDING MUSIC PUBLISHING LLC LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/brill-building-music-publishing-llc/
• Benjamin Groff Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_benjamingroff/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/
• X: https://x.com/relationlco

• Website: https://www.relationl.co/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/