CX, EX, and Everybody on the Bus: Driving Real Change in Organizations with Kris Wauters

Why real change starts with people, not technology — and how leaders can bring everyone on board.

In this episode of Your Customer, Your Success, Gary Marra speaks with Kris Wauters, founder and Managing Director of Gung-Ho Management, about the real drivers of transformation: people, culture, and leadership. With over 30 years of senior leadership experience at global companies and deep expertise in Customer & Employee Experience, Kris shares powerful stories and frameworks for creating lasting change.

From “everybody on the bus” to coaching leaders with horses, Kris brings practical wisdom and surprising analogies that highlight why CX and EX must go hand-in-hand. Kris shares his insights on customer experience, employee experience, and leadership development. He emphasizes the importance of people in transformation, the need to connect CX goals to business objectives, and the common misconceptions leaders have about change. Kris discusses strategies for overcoming change fatigue, coaching leaders, and delivering tough truths. He also touches on the impact of AI on jobs and shares valuable book recommendations and personal growth habits.

Takeaways

Transformation starts with understanding the maturity level of the organization.

People are at the center of any successful transformation.

CX and EX strategies must be integrated for effectiveness.

Leaders often overlook the importance of connecting CX goals to business objectives.

Change fatigue arises from poorly implemented changes.

Effective coaching involves bridging the gap between leaders and their teams.

Listening without the intent to answer is a crucial skill for leaders.

AI will impact jobs, but it will also create new opportunities.

Understanding the 'why' behind change is essential for buy-in.

Failure is not an option; it's about learning and adapting.

Chapters

01:13 Introduction to Transformation and Change

02:52 People First: The Core of Transformation

04:39 Building Integrated CX and EX Strategies

09:50 Aha Moments in Customer Experience Transformation

13:45 Common Misconceptions in Experience Transformation

16:55 Overcoming Change Fatigue in Organizations

26:00 Coaching Leaders in Customer Experience

33:21 Delivering Tough Truths to Leadership

41:08 “Does it Hold Water?”

45:23 Chip Shots

📚 Book Recommendation:

Kris’s Picks:

Gung Ho!, by Ken Blanchard and Sheldon Bowles : working as a team towards a common goal

Start with Why, by Simon Sinek : What and How subsequent to the purpose of your business

Find Your Why, by Simon Sinek : find your own purpose in life

JUNG, Four Archetypes brought by Routledge publishing : the basic starting point of what founded modern psychology

Surrounded by Idiots, by dr. Thomas Erikson : inventor of the Insights model, who am I and how can I recognize others and adapt my communication to have impact

Maps of Meaning, by dr. Jordan B. Peterson : the connection between modern neuropsychology and ancient stories, insight into human motivation and emotion throughout the millennia.

🔗 Connect with Kris:

LinkedIn : www.linkedin.com/in/kwauters

Website : https://www.gung-ho.be

E-mail : [email protected]

Or just call him, which he prefers! : + 32 495 55 95 75

🔗 Connect with Gary Marra:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-marra/

Marra CX Hub: https://marracxhub.com/

YouTube: YCYS YouTube Page

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