In this engaging episode, Dr. Kirk Adams sits down with disability advocate, outdoor enthusiast, and “The Blind Chick” podcast host Penn Street. Penn recounts the dramatic origins of her blindness—two rattlesnake bites at age nine triggered Stevens-Johnson syndrome, leaving her with severe burns, lasting eye damage, and years of surgeries. Growing up as the ninth of ten siblings, she credits a rugged childhood, supportive teachers, and the Lion s Clubs with building her resilience. A move to Colorado opened doors to better medical care and the mountains she loves; later, climber Erik Weihenmayer's example convinced her she could still scale rock walls, raft the Grand Canyon, and teach adaptive outdoor skills to other blind adventurers. The conversation pivots to Penn's current role as Development and Outreach Director for After Sight, the Colorado nonprofit that delivers daily audio editions of state newspapers and produces a family of blind-led podcasts — including her own lively show rebranded from “Community Conversations.” She and Dr. Adams explore the mental-health dimensions of vision loss, Penn's embrace of full-contact self-defense after a violent assault, and the power of therapy, nature, and community to heal trauma. Penn invites listeners to join her annual Maya's Gulch hike this September and to reach out — whether for a trail guide, a podcast idea, or simply a reminder that blindness need not define anyone's limits. TRANSCRIPT:

Podcast Commentator: Welcome to podcasts by Doctor Kirk Adams, where we bring you powerful conversations with leading voices in disability rights, employment and inclusion. Our guests share their expertise, experiences and strategies to inspire action and create a more inclusive world. If you're passionate about social justice or want to make a difference, you're in the right place. Let's dive in with your host, doctor Kirk Adams.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Hello, everybody, and welcome to Podcasts by Doctor Kirk Adams. I am Doctor Kirk Adams, talking to you from my home office in Seattle, Washington. And I have an amazing guest with me today. Her name is Penn Street, and I met her through Dave Epstein or Sedona Dave. Who developed the all terrain cane. In 2019, when I was at the American Foundation for the blind. I had the privilege of going to Sedona and being in a group of 8 or 9 blind people and hiking trails around Sedona, Arizona, and I was able to do that independently, really, for the first time, I my retinas detached when I was five years old. I became totally blind. I went to a school for blind kids in Oregon, and they were very experiential school. They took us backpacking in the three Soul Three Sisters Wilderness area every summer, and I can remember hiking those trails with my backpack on and using a using sighted guide. Having my hand on the sleeping bag rolled up at the bottom of the backpack in front of me. And then when I was 19 years old, I had the opportunity to climb Mount Rainier. Which was a great event multi disabled climbing team. And again, a lot, a lot of sighted guide. So to use the all terrain cane and to walk swiftly and confidently across a rugged mountain trail, it's pretty cool. And then fast forward a bit and Dave said there's a really cool person you need to meet. Her name was Penn. So? So here she is.

Podcast Commentator: So

Dr. Kirk Adams: And then if you want to talk a little bit about you.

Penn Street: Sure. Hi, Kirk. It's good to good to be here. And thanks to Sedona. Dave. I'm actually trying to remember how I got connected with Dave. I think he actually reached out to me because of the the cane, and he knew that I knew Eric Waimea and And that. Yeah, it's a lot of us people think all blind people know each other and. Right, right.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I've had I've had that experience. I was in Ketchikan, Alaska. My wife. Salmon fishing. Oh, we're getting in the boat. And someone walked down the down the dock with a cane. And, yeah, they assumed you probably know them. Said, no, I probably don't know them.

Penn Street: Yeah, my husband does that to me when we travel. Is there's a person with a blind person, you know, you know, who's blind, who has a cane or a guide dog. You need to go meet them. And I was like maybe, maybe not. Right. But yeah, but yeah. So yeah, it's when people say, so tell me a little bit about yourself. It's like, well, where do you, where do you.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I'd like to know about the blindness. I like to know about the blindness journey.

Penn Street: Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Every every story is different as far as that goes.

Penn Street: Oh, isn't that the truth? Yeah. I've always wanted to, like, write a book or something about all the ways you can go blind because they it's it's just numerous. When I was nine, I was bit by a rattlesnake a western diamondback rattlesnake, actually and it made me twice and all the anti-venom and all the fun stuff they give you, especially as a kid to, you know, save your life from being bitten by a venomous snake. Triggered a syndrome called Stevens-Johnson syndrome. And it's it's a pretty nasty syndrome, especially the onset. They treat you in a burn unit. It's just like you've been in a fire. So, yeah, 75% of my body was covered in second and third degree burns. They did not believe I'd ever be able to breathe on my own or you know. You know, eat without, you know, assistance through a feeding tube. They definitely thought I was going to be blind and deaf. Because if you think when you're in a fire, you're nothing but soft tissue. Right. So. Right. So even after the scars, you know, heal it's those that scar tissue creates a lot of issues inside the body and out. But I. You know, I'm a tomboy. I'm the ninth of ten kids, so I have seven older brothers. So I sort of had to come out.

Dr. Kirk Adams: You'd been you'd been pretty toughened up.

Penn Street: I did, and really. And the doctors told my parents that. They said it was really great that she came from such a strong baseline, not just physically, but mentally that it set her up to not only to survive, but to strive afterwards. And so it was definitely touch and go for a long, long time, and I guess probably still is. But but yeah, so I it, I think it was harder on my parents and, and family and even friends than it was on me because I went from this incredibly vibrant, healthy kid to basically overnight not knowing if I was going to survive. And if I did, what was that life going to be like? And we were in rural Arkansas when this happened. So not a ton of blind resources and services and stuff. But the the first people that really stepped up were the Lions Clubs. Yeah. Yeah. They basically showed up at my parent's door when I was, you know, it was months and months before I was allowed to go home. And they said, what? What is your. You know, we heard your daughter's blind cause, you know, made the news. This was so rare. And Yeah. And so they they're the ones.

Dr. Kirk Adams: That are totally pin.

Penn Street: No. In my right eye, I I actually have a prosthetic eye. My left eye. I still have a little peripheral out of my left, but it's it's pretty fuzzy. It's. Gotcha. I try not to rely on it. It usually gets me into trouble if I do.

Dr. Kirk Adams: The lion's clubs are good for that. I mean, I, I lived in little teeny town Silverton, Oregon. We moved down there so I could go to the school for the blind for first, second and third grade. And the lions built our fun house at the school.

Penn Street: Exactly right.

Dr. Kirk Adams: When I was 14, they sent me to. There was an organization called Blind Outdoor Leisure Development. And they paid my way to go to Aspen, Colorado, to go down a bunch of other blind people. So. Yeah. Thank you. Lions.

Penn Street: Yes, Lions. Big, big shout out to you. So but yeah, I. And then like a lot of us, we really paid attention to, like our teachers and our mentors growing up. And I don't know about you, but there weren't a lot of well, actually, I was the only blind kid in the school all through high school. Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Fourth grade, through my doctorate. Yeah, after third grade.

Penn Street: And it's crazy. Where are we? There's a lot of us. Where are we? And but I, I really knew and appreciated how much my teachers helped. Not not just, you know. Oh, we'll pass you in English because we know you can't see the book, but they really went above and beyond to find accessibility where they could. And back then I'm 57. So back then there wasn't all the digital stuff that's now. Right, right. Things like that. And so even getting me access to Braille Rail was, you know, this crazy, crazy amount of energy had to go into that. But my parents did end up deciding to move to Colorado, which. Thank you. And part of that was there was, you know, the Children's Hospital in Denver, Colorado, was actually internationally known. And and I needed a lot of medical help to keep going forward. And, and also just accessibility. You know, like teachers that actually knew how to teach blankets and stuff. So. So we moved out to Colorado and fell in love with the mountains and being outside and yeah. And I and I grew up at school came easy to me. I, I have no clue why. It's not that I'm super smart or anything. I am a puzzle solver. So I felt like school was a puzzle. And so if you kept the pieces together and you did them in a timely fashion, you got good grades and they moved you on. So it was it was really easy. And but I knew I wanted to become a teacher of some sort. Or a journalist like to write about people with disabilities. Like, this was especially after I got to Colorado. And even though there were no blind children in my school my teacher, she was one teacher, and she. I don't know how many schools she covered, but there was a lot of them. Well, like once a month, she would get us all together to go bowling or horseback riding or something.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So she was an itinerant teacher, going. Yes, to various schools where there were blind kids?

Penn Street: Yes.

Dr. Kirk Adams: And she and she would call together all the various schools. That was cool.

Penn Street: Yes. Yeah. And and she really did go above and beyond. And even as a kid, I knew she was going above and beyond. You know, she, she even on weekends, she had a cabin up in the up in the mountains and her and some other adults would take us all up there and we'd have camp outs and stuff. So but so I just loved these teachers that that were able to help me succeed. And so I knew I wanted to have do that when I grew up. And so, you know, I that's what I went to school for. And I've worked with all kinds of levels of everything from teaching daily living skills, teaching braille you know, all different things. And then.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I studied.

Penn Street: Actually at in Denver.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. But you studied education as a foreign.

Penn Street: Yes, yes.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Field of study.

Penn Street: Okay.

Penn Street: Yes, exactly. And I and I specifically went into early childhood development because I felt like if you could teach kids the tools as early as possible the stronger their, you know, academic career would be and the easier it would be for them. And then. But I ended up actually spending a lot of my life working with older people like seniors and people who had, you know, it was either like their second career, you know, they were older. But I did miss the kids, but it was just happenstance. I met Eric Weimer right after he had summited Everest. And and he was doing the Seven Summits at that time, and and I just he his whole attitude, his whole being and really changed my life. I had just lost a huge chunk of my residual vision, and, and I, and I had the skill set right. But I did need to go back and get some refresher on computer skills and things like that. But Eric really was a role model for me that I could still rock climb and hike and I could still have this Impact in the world, even outside of teaching. And so just by happenstance, his he got me involved in volunteering at his nonprofit, No Barriers. And I really loved it. Like, I fell in love with actually teaching hiking skills and rock climbing skills. And I ended up working even for a rock climbing gym where we taught blind kids how to rock climb and love that. And he was the one, even though I'd been into, you know, camping in the outdoor world, he was the one that really sort of ignited that into a different level.

Penn Street: And I loved it. Loved it. And then they brought me on staff full time, and that was when really adventure took off, actually. Nine years ago this last weekend we is when I pulled out of the Grand Canyon. We, you know, nobody has paid me, which I've. Done it for free. But I'm glad they didn't know that at the time. But I got to raft the entire Grand Canyon with a group of high schoolers that were blind and low vision. So awesome. It was just incredible. And, you know, Covid hit, right? So that you know, that caused such a mess in my life. But, you know, they they had to lay everybody off and then eventually let people go because it was just their their entire being was in-person experience gathering. Yeah. And so they just and they're still trying to hang in there. But it's I really hope they get to come back. But I don't know at the level they will. When I was there but I, I got this job that I have now. And actually a blind friend of mine, I didn't even know it was out on the market. And it's a nonprofit called After Sight, and we cover all of Colorado and an incredible organization. They've been around for 35 years. And it was founded by a blind person, David Dawson. And he when he moved to Colorado from D.C., he realized that there was no accessible way to access, you know, access newspapers and magazines in Colorado like he did when he was in Washington, D.C.. And so he started this, like, audio reading service.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. So he access the D.C.. Had access to a radio reading service?

Penn Street: Yes.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Audio reading service.

Penn Street: Okay.

Penn Street: Yeah. And so he started after sight. And now we we have over 100 volunteers that read most of Colorado's newspapers daily, 365 days a year. And we put those out in audio editions, and it's absolutely free. And we've grown. We've grown a lot. I came on, you know, almost going on five years now, and I'm their development and outreach director. And we moved everything onto all of the platform. Yeah. Platforms for podcasts. And so you don't need to have, like a digital receiver or any special equipment to access those audio editions. And then the probably the bizarre thing to me about this whole thing is when I came on, they had a podcast. It was called Community Conversations, but it really was waning. You know, the person who was doing it, you know, didn't really want to do it anymore. And so they asked me if I would take it over. And I have I have a ton of connections in the blind world. And so I was like, yeah, sure, I don't. I mean, I listen to podcasts, but I have no idea how to be a host. And so it really was, you know, kind of learning, learning as I went. And I didn't really like the title community conversations. It really didn't share the vision that I wanted to do with the podcast. And so so we came up with with the Blind Chick because on social media, that's what everybody calls me. And that's my handle is the blind chick. Not everybody loves it, but it fits me. I am the blind. And and so yeah, we rebranded it and we hired a podcast producer and it just exploded, like and I don't.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I didn't realize that you are the blind chick.

Penn Street: I am.

Penn Street: The blind.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Because I see posts by blind chick, and now I know it's you.

Penn Street: So, I mean, maybe there's others out there, I don't know.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So very coincidentally 32 years ago, I had graduated from college, had a lot of trouble finding work, and took took a job selling tax free municipal bonds over the phone, which I did for ten years and earned enough to get married and buy a house and have kids. Yeah, those things, but didn't didn't like it. Yeah, very much. But I, you know, decided to pivot into the nonprofit sector and started looking for resource development jobs and not getting them because I didn't have experience. But I got a newsletter from the Washington, Washington Talking Book and Braille Library and said, we have to raise $200,000 or close down the Evergreen Radio Reading service. So I called the librarian and said I would volunteer to help her raise that money, and that would give me experience in resource development, something for my resume. Yeah. So I did that and wrote a couple letters of inquiry, got invited to submit some full grant proposals and had beginner's luck. Got some nice checks and they said, how about we create a job for you here?

Penn Street: So.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So my first nonprofit Prophet job was to was as a development officer for the Seattle Public Library Foundation, that is, raising money for the talking book and Braille library.

Penn Street: That is awesome.

Dr. Kirk Adams: There. There you go. We have that in common.

Penn Street: Yeah. And I didn't I you know, I've done development work for a long, long time and I, I'm, I'm good at it, I guess because I keep getting hired as it. But I, it was never like a career. It was never really on my radar to grow up and be a development director. But it's I like doing it. The one thing though, I can only sell something I'm passionate about.

Penn Street: Well that's right.

Dr. Kirk Adams: That's that's why there's so much turnover among resource development professionals because they, they, they go to an organization, they're very, very excited about it. Then they over the next couple of years, they kind of were that's maybe not all they wanted it to be.

Penn Street: But it's it's also a lot of responsibility, right? Like it's knowing that your coworkers, you know. Livelihood is in your in your hands or on your shoulder.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So is after primarily focused on delivering news and periodicals to blind people or have you, as the organization developed additional programs over the years?

Penn Street: Oh, yeah. Definitely. So the podcast, the original podcast the Blind Chick is their flagship one, but they also have one called Blind Level Tech, which is also doing amazing. And it's about blind tech and it's low tech and it's also, you know, what's the latest, greatest, you know, meta glasses that have come out. And and then we have one called Blind Sight, and that one is mental health, you know, and and because, you know, mental health is it's the same yet different if you're blind and low vision. And so in most of our original podcasts are hosted by people who are blind or low vision. You know, we have one called Navigating Life with Vision Loss, and that has seasons. And so they'll have a certain amount of episodes on a very specific topic, like the the one that's coming up is about safety. And so and again, it's how it's from the perspective of how is safety different? Or maybe added levels that you need to think about when you're blind or low vision. So yeah. And then we're adding one this this fall called Code Orange, which Marty Sorbo out of California is going to host that for us.

Penn Street: He's a he was a firefighter before he lost his vision. And okay, it's that one is very, very specific about disaster being prepared for disasters or even natural disasters because he lived through the wildfires that just happened in LA. And, you know, with his firefighting background and then with his lived experience recently he's he's going to come on and we'll, we'll. And I'm excited for that because I know here in Colorado we it's scary. You know, here in my little town in called Loveland, Colorado, we have had wildfires come really close to town. Luckily they didn't get into town, but we were, you know, we were on pre evacuation. And we've also in 2013, right after we moved here, there was a huge flood. And the only thing that saved our house is we're up on a bluff. But we were kind of on this island because the water got, you know, so high and so intense for so long. So, you know, whether you believe in climate change or not it's still an issue. And you know, there are.

Penn Street: Things that Mother nature.

Penn Street: Yeah. You just don't think about, you know, like, like evacuation is a little different. If you've got a white cane and, you know, they're telling you to get in your car and.

Penn Street: Right, right, right, right, right.

Penn Street: Or if you have a guide dog. Right. You know that. How different does that look and stuff. So.

Penn Street: Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Are you are you a guide dog user or.

Penn Street: I am, I am. I because of my health issues, I have to have a hypoallergenic dog. So I've, I've only had standard poodles and my, my fourth dog, but he is about to turn 12, so his name's Beethoven, and he's a big. Well, he I guess he used to be black and now he's quite silver. But yeah, big standard.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Happens to the best of us. Beethoven.

Penn Street: Exactly what? What about you? Are you a.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I learned how to use a cane when I was six. And I've just always been very, very comfortable with, with cane travel. So. Yeah, I stick with that. But I, I'd like to venture into some territory. I don't know how comfortable you'll be, but I'm going to go.

Penn Street: I'm an. I'm an open.

Penn Street: Book.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So you mean you mentioned blindsight? Dealing with mental health and blindness, right?

Penn Street: Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So I was not in the hospital for months and months at a stretch like you, but I did have probably ten unsuccessful eye surgeries between age six and 12. And I would be in the hospital for a couple of weeks at a time. After surgery with my with my head in a clamp so I couldn't move my head and, you know, jar the, you know, the surgical work I drink eating through a straw. Yeah. Because I couldn't. Wasn't supposed to do because the jaw jaw movement could be disruptive. Right. So you know, I, I've had some I've had some issues with, with the depression and frustration and things. Yeah. No, I did did go to some talk therapy. I actually had a wonderful experience meeting a woman who teaches narrative medicine at Columbia University. When we lived on the East Coast and she she taught me some meditation and some energy healing, some some pretty, some pretty woo woo stuff that.

Penn Street: Really I love. I love the woo woo stuff.

Penn Street: So.

Dr. Kirk Adams: But you know, one of the talk therapists said to me, you know, have you done anything about dealing with your childhood trauma? I said, childhood trauma. She's like, yes, you were six years old in the hospital by yourself?

Penn Street: Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Or two weeks with your head in a clamp?

Penn Street: Yes.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Childhood trauma, my friend. And then, you know, there's things like I lived in these little towns. We lived out of town, you know. No, no. Public transportation. And then you know, I was in a regular high school and Then when kids turned 16, everyone got a driver's license, so everyone drove. It was car, you know, car culture. Let's meet here. Let's meet there. Everyone was driving. I wasn't always included. So, yeah, I had a lot of anger and grief and, you know, the whole grief, grief cycle just around that. I'm just wondering, any thoughts, general or particular, about blindness and mental health?

Penn Street: Absolutely. When growing up, I mean, I saw, just like, the regular counselor at school, but again, I was the only, you know, blind person there. I think she did it because probably somebody told her, oh, you need to meet with the blind student, you know? But we didn't really talk about anything. We didn't talk about, you know, it was most like, oh, I see you. You're doing really good in English. You know, kind of stuff. Like, it wasn't it was just an excuse to get out of class once a week. But when I decided to move away from home to go to school. And I was I didn't go very far. I just went to Denver. But I wanted to live in Denver. I didn't want to live at home and and go to school in my hometown. I wanted to get out on my own. And it was not too long after that, I. I was assaulted. And it was crazy long, horrific story. But what was interesting is I, you know, they, you know, even just dealing with the police and the doctors and stuff at that point because I couldn't describe them. I didn't know what they was. I knew there were three, but I didn't know. I didn't know, you know. And but then but then I was I described the experience with my other senses. And, you know, I said, well, you know, I smelt this and blah, blah, blah. And so that was really important to the case. And there was even some witnesses and stuff like that out of that, what came out of that and, you know, and the police said, you know, oh, you actually gave a better description than most victims give. And and that was what really triggered me to go to therapy. The, the, I was, I was 19. You know, I was young. And the one thing the reason I wanted to go to therapy is because I was maybe told by the I don't know who said it, but it was some comment like, oh, once you're victimized, you're more likely to be a victim. And that scared me to death.

Penn Street: Yeah.

Penn Street: Like it scared me. Like, because I didn't think of myself as a victim because I couldn't see like, I didn't. My mom was always afraid. But that my low vision would, you know, people would take advantage of me. But I don't think she I think she thought like, oh, when I go buy a Coke at the local store.

Penn Street: Yeah.

Penn Street: They're not going to give me back the like. I think.

Penn Street: That's what she.

Penn Street: Thought. I don't think she thought that I would physically be damaged because of I was blind, and I don't know if I was targeted because I was blind. But but it could have been, but anyway, I was so scared to be victimized again that I really went overboard with that. Every, every therapy you can imagine, you know, couch art talk singing, drumming. And it was in also in Boulder, Colorado, which is at that time was the hippy dippy, you know, new agey. Any kind of therapy would go. But I also one of the things that really changed my life is I got into self-defense and.

Penn Street: Okay.

Penn Street: And I, my therapist actually turned me on. It was full contact self-defense. And they're still around. And actually it came out of California. It's called model mugging. Model mugging.

Penn Street: Mugging.

Penn Street: Okay, yeah. And the guy dresses up in this, he looks kind of like an alien. He's all padded head to toe. He kind of looks like an alien, and he's very scary, and and they're they're you know, black belt martial arts, you know, people, men who who help with this program. And I got very involved with that. And I took everything from the basic course to multiple assailant course to weapons course. And what they do is they attack you and just like, you know, you're walking down the street you know, they had all these scenarios if you were laying down in bed and all this kind of stuff, and they teach you them. I was the first blind person. That was, of course, maybe that was definitely the first, I hope Hopefully it wasn't the last, but so. But I was a better fighter than the sighted people. And part of it was, is I had to use my other senses. Yeah. Because when you're in a kind of that, you know, flee or fight or whatever it's called, they you really don't use your vision. You have to use your, your, your entire body. And so and I even ended up getting certified and was one of the assistant trainers for years and years and years and.

Penn Street: Oh, cool.

Penn Street: That was that was really important. And, and then throughout the years I've gone back for, you know, like you know, like when I lost that big chunk of vision over my I went back because I really was, even though I'd been low vision, extremely low vision, but losing another big chunk really kind of sent me in a pretty bad spiral because part of it was I really thought that I wouldn't be able to climb and ski and do the outdoor things, because I didn't really have a role model in my life that did that. Eric.

Penn Street: And then but yeah, and even recently Kirk like because with the Stevens-Johnson syndrome, everything breaks down faster. So like, even in my 20s, I started getting arthritis, and you know, I don't have a great heart. I don't have great lungs. Even though I live extremely healthy. You know, I, I eat right, I exercise, I, you know, I don't smoke, I don't do any of the fun stuff everybody else gets to do. But like, lately, these last couple of years have kind of been a really rough roller coaster for my health and some pretty scary moments over the last couple of years with my health. And it's it's definitely put me in a place, and I was even just over the weekend talking to my husband like, you know what? Maybe I should think about seeing somebody because this is not me and I don't. I usually bounce back faster than this. And and I'm not bouncing back very fast anymore. And I'm not just talking physically. I'm talking mentally. And so but I, I think you had a really good point of your somebody saying, have you ever thought about about your childhood trauma? I think a lot of kids that are blind and low vision, they just and maybe kids in general, they just take it for granted. Oh, well, this is just what I'm going through. Like, you don't really grasp that it's trauma until you're older and right. You know, you look back and you're like, wait a minute, that was kind of crummy. And that I had to go through that alone, or nobody was explaining to me what, Oh, yeah. Happening.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Like I remember all the medical.

Penn Street: Oh, the medical stuff is a nightmare. I don't care what age you are, but when you're a little kid and you're going through it a lot, like, I remember my first eye surgery that I had. And I like you. I've had so many, I can't even count. But for some reason, they. I mean, I was a pretty chill kid, like, I wasn't, you know, I was pretty chill. But they gave me some kind of, like, super light sedative to get me from my hospital room into the operating room so that maybe I don't know what they were thinking, but when I came to, I was in the operating room and I was alone. I was like, oh, wow. Literally alone. And And I knew my parents were in the hospital. Like, I knew that. And so I started yelling for my dad, like, you know, da da da da. And Then all of a sudden, you know, these nurses, doctors come in. Oh, well. And the more they came, like, I, they're, like, trying to pin me down, which just scared me way worse. Well, my dad comes through the door, and I'm sure he, like, sees these nurses.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Like, holding her down.

Penn Street: And then he freaks out, which makes me freak out more. And, yeah, I mean, obviously everything ended up okay, and I'm sure they just knocked me out, right? Skip the screaming kid. Calm down. But it's like, I. I've never forgotten that, you know? And my dad didn't either. My dad, it was. He was traumatized by that adult trauma. Exactly. And so you think of those things. And I think as kids, we kind of just shove them like I'm just something I went through. You know.

Dr. Kirk Adams: My my stuff was done at the University of Oregon Medical School Hospital in Portland. Okay. Dawn Becker was 10th floor. That was the children's floor. But it was a teaching hospital. My my doctor Swan was kind of a renowned retinal specialist. Yeah. So I was looked at by lots and lots of students. So there'd be a room with, like, 20 students in it. And, you know, me with my eyes dilated in the bright lights and, you know, exactly 20 people taking their turn and discussing me, like, you know, like what? Like what I was to them.

Penn Street: Yes, exactly.

Dr. Kirk Adams: A lesson.

Penn Street: Hopefully they passed.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Exactly right.

Penn Street: That's. Absolutely.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. So Therapy. Good. Yeah. Say that.

Penn Street: Absolutely. Fine.

Dr. Kirk Adams: You're gonna find a therapist who is blind or visually impaired or has another disability. That's a.

Penn Street: Good. Yeah. That's a bonus.

Dr. Kirk Adams: That's a bonus. But don't don't don't Feel it is any sign of weakness to ask for help and support from professionals who are trained to do that?

Penn Street: Absolutely. And I also am a big believer that just being outside can be therapeutic. Yeah, absolutely. Regardless of it's, you know, sitting in your backyard, whatever. You're yeah, you know, happy places, you know.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Go gotta go get your bare feet on the grass.

Penn Street: Exactly.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. So Pan, this time has flown by.

Penn Street: I know.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Anything you want people to know. You want to tell people again how they could find your podcast?

Penn Street: Yeah. So you can. I'm on all the platforms. All. All the platforms. The blind check. And. Yeah, check it out. We I interview people from all over the world. I'm going to be in you know, Doctor Kirk Adams here is going to be on. And people come on and they they share their stories. I've, you know, interviewed artists and musicians and authors and doctors and, I mean, you name it, but also just everyday people like me. I'm not any of those things either. So but it's been really, really fun. And if you have a question or if you're in Colorado and you want to go for a hike you can reach out to me by email and that's pen pen at after site.org. Or if you are in Colorado or want to come to Colorado, we're having a really amazing hike. September 13th, we're going to be hiking Maya's Gulch Trail, and there'll be a lot of amazing blind and low vision people there and a lot of great sighted guides. And yeah, it's we do it once a year and it's just a really fun outdoor event. If you've never hiked before, that's okay. You know, we'll have people there to help you navigate that. Or even if you're a, you know, a trail runner, we'll have people there that can or bring your own guide if you want. Levels all levels. So it's just a beautiful, beautiful day. And yeah, I just, you know, I really have tried not to let my vision loss define who I am. I have so much more about me than my vision loss. And so it's. And I'm in Sedona. Dave, thanks for introducing the two of us.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah I think thanks, Sedona. Dave, I know you're listening.

Penn Street: Yes.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So Wonderful, man. Great. Looking forward to being in dialogue with you over the coming years now that we know each other.

Penn Street: Absolutely.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So people want to get in touch with me. My email is Kirk Adams Adams. Doctor. Kirk Adams. Com. Kirk Adams at Kirk Adams. Com. I'm on LinkedIn a lot. I'm Kirk Adams on LinkedIn. And thank you all for listening. And we'll see you next time.

Penn Street: Thanks.

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