In this engaging episode, Dr. Kirk Adams sits down with Seattle-based runner and social-impact professional Ixchel Lemus Bromley. The conversation traces her journey from Costa Rica to Pennsylvania and on to the Pacific Northwest, culminating in a college-age diagnosis of retinitis pigmentosa that reshaped her sense of identity and mobility. Bromley explains how guided running restored the "true freedom" she once felt on solo runs, using hand- or waist-tethers and vivid verbal cues to replace anxiety with trust and exhilaration. Determined to share that liberation with others, she founded Free 2 Fly, a Sunday-morning adaptive running club now evolving into a nonprofit that pairs blind and low-vision athletes with sighted guides and is gearing up for its first 5 K event.

Beyond the track, Bromley leads the social-responsibility team at Brooks Running, where she safeguards worker rights across the brand's global supply chain—an extension of her passion for equitable access and inclusion. She and Adams trade stories of childhood athletics, the mechanics of safe pacing, and the broader message that alternative techniques can unlock performance and belonging for people with vision loss. The episode closes with Adams pledging his support and inviting listeners to volunteer as guides or runners, underscoring their shared conviction that partnership is the engine of empowerment. TRANSCRIPT:

Podcast Commentator: Welcome to podcasts by Doctor Kirk Adams, where we bring you powerful conversations with leading voices in disability rights, employment and inclusion. Our guests share their expertise, experiences and strategies to inspire action and create a more inclusive world. If you're passionate about social justice or want to make a difference, you're in the right place. Let's dive in with your host, doctor Kirk Adams.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Welcome, everybody, to Podcasts by Doctor Kirk Adams. I am Doctor Kirk Adams, speaking to you from my home office in Seattle, Washington. And I have a fellow Seattle person with me today, Ixchel Lemus Bromley and Ixchel, if you want to say hi.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Yeah. Hi, this is Ixchel. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Great. Awesome. So I'll just speak a little bit about myself for those who are listening, who might not know me. And then. Then I'd really like to hand hand you the, the talking stick Ixchel, and have you tell us about yourself. But I again, I'm Doctor Kirk Adams. I'm a totally blind person. I have been since age five, when my retinas both detached. So Ixchel and and I have had quite different journeys in visual impairment and blindness. I became totally blind very quickly. And I went to a school for blind kids for second and third grade, and there was no question that I needed to learn blindness skills. So I was taught braille as a six year old and how to travel confidently and gracefully with a long white cane, and then how to type on a typewriter so I could start into public school when I was ready. And that was fourth grade. And then I went all the way through, lived in small rural towns in Oregon and Washington. I was always the only blind student in all of my schools from fourth grade through my my doctoral program. But I entered the nonprofit sector about ten years after college, after spending ten years in banking and finance, entered the sector through becoming a professional fundraising person, was hired by the lighthouse for the blind here in Seattle to start their foundation and their fundraising program.

Dr. Kirk Adams: And thanks to their investments in me and my development, my professional development, I was privileged to become the president and CEO at the Lighthouse here in Seattle, which is a social enterprise employing blind and deaf blind people in a variety of businesses, most notably aerospace manufacturing, making parts for all the Boeing aircraft. I was recruited to join the board of the American Foundation for the blind. Afp. Which is Helen Keller's organization and one I had been familiar with since being a first grader at a school for the blind. As we had materials in the classroom developed by American Foundation for the blind, and I was given the opportunity and the privilege to become the president and CEO of the American Foundation for the blind. In 2016 moved from Seattle to New York City and then to the Washington, D.C. area and then back home during the pandemic and after managing AFB remotely for a time, I decided it was time for a change, and I stepped away from that great organization and wonderful role and started a consulting practice.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I call it Innovative Impact, LLC. I'm just three, three years in, and I mostly work with companies to help them accelerate inclusion of people who are blind in their workforce and getting a lot of traction in the cybersecurity industry, which is exciting and new. I am not a cybersecurity expert, but I am a blindness employment expert. So I've partnered with a cybersecurity company called Nova Coast, and we've developed the Apex program, which you can find at the Apex Apex program. And it's a virtual training and certification program to launch blind people into cybersecurity careers. And I'm very proud of it. So I, I, I mentioned it a lot. So yeah, with that, I'm let's see, married to my college sweetheart. We'll, we'll hit the 40 year anniversary mark next month. We have two grown children, one of whom is in Seattle, our son, who has blessed us with two amazing grandchildren. And our daughter lives in Los Angeles, and she'll be coming up Friday for her annual summer visit. So that's a that's a little about me. And now for the star of the show. You shall welcome. And we'd love to hear about your journey. As a blind person.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Thank you so much. We're we're where you're currently at and what you're working on. You're doing some amazing things in the community.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Thank you. Yeah. It's it's awesome to be talking with you today. And I'm always. Yeah, so, so amazed by all that you've done. So I feel very lucky to be here talking to you today. And thank you for everything that you've done for the community. It's it's truly amazing and so impactful. Thank you. Yeah. So I'm Estelle. I was born in San Jose, Costa Rica. I lived there for six years. My my dad is Guatemalan and my mom is American. So was born there. I lived there for six years and then moved to the United States when I was six. Grew up in the Pennsylvania area outside of Philadelphia. And when I was very little, there was some Someone noticed noticed that I had some visual issues. And, you know, I quickly went to the eye doctor when I was around 3 or 4 years old to understand what was going on. I got a pair of glasses. I remember my first pair were pink and Barbie themed, and I loved them. And I remember just being able to see through them and it was really amazing the, the sight that I had at the time and, and that transition I went through from like, really not being able to see much to having some clarity there. Then when I was six and I lived in Pennsylvania, Sylvania. I went to my annual eye doctor appointment, and my eye doctor at the time noticed that my pupils reacted a little strangely and abnormally to light.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: And he he said that I was likely night blind. But that it wouldn't really be an issue unless I wanted to enlist. Those were the words that he told me. And so my mom and I were like, okay, well, that's what we were told. So let's let's just move on. And I was sick. So no plans to enlist at that time. And we moved on with it. But later on in my life when I was in middle school and then early high school, a lot of my hobbies were around dance and theater. And with dance and theater, you're backstage a lot, and the lighting is very, very dim. Or there's no light to help with that. And I noticed my my night vision was really not great. And I would tell everybody, you know, I'm night blind. That's what I've been told. I need a little bit more support at backstage. At that time. Then the night vision was a struggle, but it wasn't fully gone. So it just seemed like I had a little bit a harder time than most people, but I could still see a little bit and so was able to navigate a bit myself. As time went on, I got my driver's license and then I would drive even at night. Wow. Yep.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So. So in my experience something really significant in my life is I, I lived in these rural towns, and we lived out of town. And when I, when, when I turned 16, we lived in Silverton, Oregon. We lived out on Silver Silver Creek Falls Road, a couple of miles out of town. And when kids turned 16 they all got driver's licenses and they all got some sort of part time job or paid something. Yeah. And so that was super isolating for me and super psycho socially really, really hard. So I was pretty I was pretty sad about that. And, you know, the social scene shifted to car culture, and everyone drove everywhere and met, you know, by driving and so that that that was a tough time. So I am glad for you that you had the cool experience of driving.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I can't I can't imagine that time, you know, in in your shoes. I think for me, what was interesting was I got my license, I was told I could drive, and I started driving at night and realized I shouldn't be driving. But it was this hard realization. And as a 16 year old, to make that decision when you know there's no one telling you you can't. All your friends are doing it and you know. Yeah. You become so independent and you want to join your friends. You want to feel like you are growing and you know, maturing in the same level. And you really sense that you shouldn't be driving at night. And so it ended up actually coming back to me. And I said, I've had some close calls. I shouldn't be driving at night. I think that there is a bigger issue with my vision than I was told. And my, my mom and I decided to go on a journey and try to find some doctors that would tell us what was happening. So we actually visited a lot of different doctors in the Philadelphia area until finally someone said, you know what? I think you should get an erg scan and see if there's any anything that comes out of that. And I did this scan and right before I went off to college I did all the testing and then was told six months later, halfway through my freshman year of college, that I was diagnosed with retinitis pigmentosa.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: And that I was essentially going blind. And so that was interesting to me and interesting time because for me, it was almost like a sense of relief. Like, I had a diagnosis and I could research it. I was validated in my feelings and my sentiments that there was something you know, going on with my vision beyond this, you know, night blindness diagnosis I'd gotten many years ago. But for my family, I think it was a little bit harder to grasp because they had never really been a part of the blind blindness community. Low vision community. And, yeah, they didn't really know how to support me what this would be like. And it was an yeah, a challenging but, you know, also validating time in my life to receive that diagnosis. And so I went through college having now I knew I had RPI. I went to Boston University and I studied communications there. And at the time with, with my diagnosis I yeah, my night vision wasn't great, but I still had a lot of vision during the daytime. So I was not using any kind of mobility devices, not really using anything to help me out. I could manage pretty much as a sighted person. And it was interesting because I was like, where do I fit in if I am not totally sighted and I'm not totally blind? Where is my place? But I think I just embraced and tried to hold on to what I could.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Of of still having sight and presenting myself like that. Until actually quite recently, where more of my vision has or my vision has declined further. So in, in the past few years, I now live in Seattle, as you mentioned. I'm here. And I work for Brooks running the the performance footwear and apparel company. And I am a runner, and I've been a runner for the past 6 or 7 years. And for a while, I ran totally independently. It was something that brought a lot of freedom into my life, and it made me feel really capable. Especially when, you know, there are a lot of things I have felt I couldn't do as much anymore. But in the past few years, I was tripping a lot when I was running, was falling, was having some close calls, and I found that the freedom I once felt in running was was slowly, disappearing. It was no longer freeing. And it was actually very anxiety inducing to go out for a run. But I was introduced to guided running last year, which totally, totally changed my mindset on a lot of things. And one of those things was, you know, really presenting myself as a low vision blind individual, being comfortable asking for help and transitioning the ways that I do things to adapt, to be able to continue, you know, living my life and doing everything.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Alternative to alternative techniques.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Right, exactly.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. So you and I met out at Brooks running headquarters and in the center of the universe in Fremont. Yes. Seattle. And it was a foundation fighting blindness event where a lot of organizations in the community that have to do with recreation and outdoor activities for people who are blind gathered together. And you and I had a little conversation about that. I ran cross-country in high school. My junior and senior years. We had moved from Silverton, Oregon to Snohomish, Washington, and my English teacher was the cross-country coach, and I was kind of a I was I was wrestling from our earlier age, but I, I was a fit. Kind of tall, slender guy. And he said, you look like you should run distance. So why don't you come out and try cross-country, which I did. And and I had a really wonderful experience. I, we invented our we invented guided running for ourselves because we didn't we didn't have any contact with any other blind people. We just kind of made it up on the fly. I ran with teammates during practice and then for meets the girls cross country coach, a gentleman named Mac Bates, was a very competitive distance runner. So he he ran with me during meets. And he could run and carry on a normal conversation. Well, well, I, I was doing. Doing my best, but I couldn't remember that sense of freedom. I remember when the first district meet. It was all on Walter E Hall Golf course up in Everett. And it was the first time I had worn spikes. And I just remember you know, they were long sloping grassy expanses there. There was really no danger of collision or tripping. And I can just remember that sense of freedom when I really, really ran. I mean, really opened up and and ran at, you know, my full, full capability. And it was a wonderful thing. And then the other little, little piece. Yeah, the other little piece is Coach Eason said. Go buy a pair of Brooks Villanova's to train it. So that's what. That's what I had.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: So awesome. I love to hear that. But yeah, I think that the sense of freedom is is something I love to talk about because I think, you know, if I look back on a few years ago when I was running by myself, I thought that what I was feeling was freedom. And I think in a way it was it was great for me to go out and do that. But the minute I started running with a guide where, you know, you no longer had to try to see something you would never see or slow your pace so that you wouldn't trip or fall or just feel safe and not and let go of the anxiety. Oh my gosh. It was so freeing and so amazing to just go out there and feel like you can truly practice the sport with the help of of somebody making sure that you stay safe and that you stay on the path and hopefully don't twist an ankle.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So we did the guided running. It was just all verbal. He he would run kind of a half pace. Ahead.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Just off my shoulder and you know, say, you know, there's a slope coming up in about ten, you know, 20 strides gradual slope down or, you know, we're coming up on you know we're going to angle to the right about 20 degrees that, that kind of thing. And then how do you do it? What's what what's the real technique?

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: I, I always tell people that, you know, it's whatever works best for you. And so I think that there's a few different techniques that I've seen people use. My, my preferred technique is I use what I call either a hand tether or a waist tether. The hand tether is it can be anything, honestly, that you both hold on to. But I have ones that my my friend actually crocheted and it's a, it's a bracelet basically that goes on my wrist. And then there's a attachment to another bracelet that goes on my guide's wrist. And as we're running the tether, does a lot of the communication for you, because if we need to go a little bit to the left or a little bit to the right, you'll either sense the tension of the tether, or you'll sense that the person guiding you is becoming a little closer to you, which tells you to move a little bit more. There's also a lot with just contact. So when we do turns, those can be really tricky. But if you have your forearms connected, you can feel the degree of the turn that you are about to make. And so there's a lot you can do from just a feel and touch. If, if you're comfortable with that and then obviously verbal cues on hills, textures, lighting, all of that can help as well. Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Do you have a preference for which side your guide is on?

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: I always prefer my left side. I think for me to, when I'm running on a path that has runners coming the other way, it's nice to have a blocker of.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Right, right, right. That makes.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Sense.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Yeah. And then I think a bonus tip that I always tell the guides is that what's really nice is when a guide can communicate what they're seeing and what they're passing. So describing the area, describing the scenery. And I always said that the first time I ran a race with the guides was the first race that I really felt like I saw, because they were reading the signs, they were telling me what was going on. And I had run many races in the past by myself, but really didn't feel like I had experienced what was around me. So it was really beautiful to have that extra layer of help and support.

Dr. Kirk Adams: And now you've you've. You're spreading the joy by by creating your running group.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: I am yes. So that's been the best thing I think I've, I've ever started is I, after my own experience of transitioning from running solely you know, alone to running with a guide, I realized that I shouldn't be the only one who gets to experience the sensation, and that there's also such beautiful community and partnership in adaptive running with guides and living in the Seattle area. I had not found another organization that was, you know, specific to adaptive running for low vision blind individuals. That was meeting regularly to really help folks get into running. I think something that is interesting for running is that the more you do it, the better you get. And so with a lot of things and if people want to, you know, feel more confident running, I wanted to build a space where they had the opportunity to do that. And so I started a club, a running club called Free 2 Fly. The name is very intentional. The free is really a play on, on the freedom that you feel, and hopefully that you'll feel when you begin to run with us. The two is the the number two, which is a play on the, the two people that you need to be able to run. And the partnership that it involves and the fly is not only the sensation, hopefully that you're feeling like you're flying or running is the closest you can get to flying.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: I think from at least that I know of from a human perspective. But it's also play on the logo that I have, which has two tethered butterflies on it. And to me, butterflies have always symbolized transformation and change and seeing the beauty in, in that. And I think for me, transitioning into this and also accepting myself as a low vision blind individual and adapting to change I've seen that, like being positive in that transformation has helped me see the beauty in it as well. And so that's where the name comes from. And I thought a lot about it. But now, now I love I love that we say 3 to 5. So that's the name. And we meet every Sunday morning. Here in Seattle, we have guides and low vision. Blind athletes come and I always pair up a guide and a runner based on their pace, their goals. And it's been really amazing and it has grown a lot over the last few months. And we're a group of us are all doing A5K in the next few weeks together, and it'll be some of their first races ever. First. That's great. Yeah, it'll it'll be really fun. So it's been the best project and I'm really.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Really.

Dr. Kirk Adams: On Sundays, do you always meet at the same place or you just you move.

Dr. Kirk Adams: On.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: So we have been meeting in the same place. There's we meet at Gasworks Park, and that helps to make sure that, you know, you you gain some familiarity with this space. And I think that helps. At least it has helped me be more confident when I'm familiar with that. Okay. There will be some hills. There will be, you know, some bikers potentially just knowing that. But then also as a blind runner myself, I have also wanted to explore other places. And I think with guides you can really go anywhere. So we actually now just started this yesterday on our meetup. Every first, first Sunday of every month we will go to a new place. And I've been calling that our monthly field trip to a new place.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Where was your field? Oh. Green lake.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Nice.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Yeah. Green Lake yesterday.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yep. Yeah. So yeah, for.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Those of you not from Seattle, Green Lake has a beautiful path around the whole lake, so.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: How do people get in touch if they want to run or want to guide?

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Yeah. So right now we're trying to build out something that's a little bit easier, like some websites and, and stuff. Right now social media is the, the easiest way. We have an Instagram account called Free 2 Fly. Underscore RC where a lot of people can get in touch. There's also an app called Halo h e l o Oh and that's where I organize the, the attendees every week, so you can RSVP to each run that way. I will say that the app right now has some accessibility challenges. And so I have been contacting the blind low vision runners on WhatsApp separately, but I'm also working on trying to get that app to be more accessible so that we can have everyone on one place.

Dr. Kirk Adams: That's great.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I I'm really intrigued by your job, your day job and what you do at Brooks running. If if you wouldn't mind talking a little bit.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Of course. That your career and how you got into it and What how how did you get from Boston University to Fremont neighborhood in Seattle?

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Yeah. Yeah. Of course. So I, I think that I've always been an impact driven person. I've always wanted to work in a role where I would be making a positive impact. I think that's what drives me to work every day. But I, I graduated from Boston University with a degree in mass communications. But I honestly had no real idea at the time when I was in school what I wanted to do. All I knew was that I, I really liked the fashion industry in college. And so while I was at Bu, I did a few internships in the fashion space, more around the merchandising side of fashion. And that brought me actually to Seattle for Nordstrom. I worked there for a few years. And at Nordstrom, I you know, started as an intern in, in mass communication or sorry, not mass communications in fashion merchandising, working in the buying office. But as I was there, I, you know, had posed some questions about sustainability. I always thought that, you know, brands and retailers should be doing more in the sustainability space and was really lucky that at the time, they needed entry level people in that space and so was offered a role.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: After my internship in the CSR department, the corporate social responsibility department at Nordstrom. And that role focused mostly on the social side of sustainability, which is really around human rights in the supply chain, making sure that the factories we're working with are compliant to laws and regulations that uphold worker rights. And I loved it and I, I felt like there was a lot we could do to help benefit the people making the products. And so I was there for a few years doing a lot of that work, and then ended up, you know, finding a similar role at Brooks. Now, I, I. I lead that department at Brooks. And I, I do similar things, but have Brooks has a smaller supply chain, so it's, it's a little bit more focused in that way. But we yeah, we work every day with the factories that make our products to do different kinds of assessments and make sure that the workers in those factories are treated fairly, compensated fairly, and that we are sourcing our products in an ethical way.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Sounds like fun to me.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: It's it's a lot of work, but it's great.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So the time has flown by, but any any thoughts on. I know you're you're going to be growing Free 2 Fly. Are there other, you know, are you similar simmering on any other endeavors?

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Right now my focus is on Free 2 Fly. By I do. I'm working right now to establish it as a non-profit. I think that there's a lot we can do to help this community beyond these, like, weekly community events. And so I think that once that step is completed, there's a lot more that we can do there to help support this community and also help, you know, diversify the running industry by helping promote you know, races and have folks go and, and join them and just have the visibility of these people since and raising awareness since a lot of time. We're not seeing us being represented in those areas. So that's the focus. I think there's a lot of a lot of work there that can be done. So it excites me a lot. And yeah, we'll see where that goes.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh Well, so glad that I decided to go to the FFP event at Brooks Running and met you. And I am here to. I'm here to support in any way I can. And if anyone's listening, who wants to get in touch with me Email us. Kirk. Adams. Adams. Adams. Adams. Com. And I'm Kirk Adams, PhD, on LinkedIn. And my my PhD is in leadership and change, and I did an ethnographic study of blind adults employed at large American corporations. So I interviewed a lot of cool blind people working out at a lot of companies that we're all familiar with. And I learned about why they self-defined as successfully employed the factors that they felt led to their ability to be successful, and then the ongoing going. Disappointment and frustration that everyone still experiences being being in that world that wasn't necessarily designed for us, but still needing to make our way and doing the best we can to thrive. So I really appreciate you what you're doing. Thank you so much for joining me today, and I look forward to speaking with you again soon. Thanks, everybody.

Ixchel Lemus Bromley: Thank you.

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