Remarkable World Commentary Episode #64: Interview with Alexander Barrasso, Policy Advisor https://donnajodhan.com/rwc-12-02-2025/

In this far-reaching episode of Remarkable World Commentary, Donna J. Jodhan welcomes retired U.S. diplomat and six-time U.S. blind chess champion Alex Barrasso for a conversation that spans childhood, global diplomacy, disability rights, and the power of persistence. Alex traces his journey from growing up blind in a tight-knit Italian immigrant family in multicultural New York, complete with daring solo bike rides, to the moment a State Department recruiter convinced him that a life in the Foreign Service was possible. He recounts postings in countries including Colombia, Singapore, Thailand, the Czech Republic, Brunei, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE, sharing stories of advocating for guide dog access in Singapore, connecting with schools for the blind abroad, helping secure a $13.1 billion defense sale that supported tens of thousands of U.S. jobs, and negotiating the release of a detained family in a foreign language on short notice. Along the way, he and Donna compare notes on inaccessible exams, the emotional toll of being told "no," and the stubborn optimism it takes to keep pushing.

The discussion also dives into the less visible side of Alex's career: attitudinal and institutional barriers within his own government, being quietly passed over for assignments, and being barred from high-profile events like aircraft carrier visits simply because of blindness. He explains how he led by listening first and speaking last, inviting honest questions about disability, and using tools like JAWS, Braille displays, embossers, and full-time human assistance to do his job at the highest levels. As chair of the State Department's Disability Action Group, he helped advance accessible housing initiatives and championed the Hidden Disabilities Sunflower program, training hundreds of staff to better support colleagues with non-apparent disabilities. Alex also shares how chess, learned at age 11 thanks to one inclusive coach, has shaped his decision-making, resilience, and sense of community, from embassy pizza-and-chess nights to mentoring blind students through the U.S. Blind Chess Association. He closes with a powerful message: don't be afraid to pursue ambitious goals, actively seek and lean on allies, take care of your physical and mental health, and be clear and assertive about the accommodations you need so that, like him and Donna, you can prove that a blind life in high-stakes leadership is not easy, but absolutely doable.

TRANSCRIPT

Podcast Commentator: Greetings.

Podcast Commentator: Donna J Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, site loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate, and podcast commentator. She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge, skills, and expertise in access technology and information as someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles, she just wants to make things better than possible.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary. I am Donna Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly through sound, touch and stubborn optimism. I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant, author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind. You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010, I won the Landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites accessible to every Canadian, not just the sighted ones. And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen disability groups to turn equal access into federal law and most recently, on June 3rd, 2022. I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers. When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or in a pottery studio, you will find me coaching kids with vision loss, producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their gadgets talk back in plain language. Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into everyday Big brothers, I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today's conversation, let me shine a spotlight on today's guest, a change maker whose work is as every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build. Alex Barrasso, I'd like to welcome you to my Remarkable World Commentary podcast. So, Alex, I always like to start with roots. Can you take my listeners back to your childhood in New York, growing up as the blind son of an Italian immigrant and share how that early family and cultural environment shaped the way that you see the world today.

Alex Barrasso: Sure. Thank you, Donna, for giving me the opportunity to be on your podcast and for the excellent question. So my parents were immigrants from Italy, as you said, and I was born blind. And a couple of years after I was born, we moved from a small apartment into a house surrounded by neighbors. It was an incredibly multicultural street. The the neighbors to our left were from Yugoslavia. The neighbors to our right were from Ireland. The ones across the street were from Norway. It was And they were not all of them had had necessarily been the immigrants, but but their extended family was with them and it was it was just an amazing multicultural environment to grow up in. And I think that has contributed to just my, my openness as a person to people of different cultures, different backgrounds, different faiths. And in terms of my family life my mother in particular really infused me with an incredibly positive attitude. She used to tell me that I'm only limited by what my mind can, can dream of and do. And maybe that's not 100% true, but it certainly made me a very positive person. And a person who tried to live life that way. I remember when I was 6 or 7, my friends were getting bicycles for their birthday and I said, well, I want a bicycle. Of course, I didn't think about how I was going to ride this thing. I was going to learn to ride it. I just I wanted a bicycle, and I know I learned later on that my parents kind of had a conversation, well, do we get him a bicycle or not? And they eventually did. And my father would run with me and teach me how to use the training wheels. And then I graduated to two wheels, but my parents probably didn't know as much is that I would take my bike out and ride down the sidewalk by myself.

Alex Barrasso: And I mean, it's probably it's a miracle that nothing really bad happened to me. Except for the one time when I was with a friend and actually tried to keep up with him And fell down, chipped the tooth, bruised all four joints and, you know, whatever. But anyway, that hopefully gives your listeners a snapshot of kind of what, what it was like to grow up for me. And I know that that last incident I just mentioned resulted in my parents not talking to each other for a week, but you know, that's that's that's kind of a little bit about what it was like.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think I will tell you more offline about similarity to my dad, who taught me how to ride a bike. And I had very little vision as a child. So you have been blind since birth. Okay. Yet you chose a career that many people assume demands perfect eyesight. What drew you to the Foreign Service in the first place. And what do you remember about the moment that you decided, quote, I am going to be a diplomat.

Alex Barrasso: Sure. So I was a senior in high school and I thought I wanted to study law after university. And at the time, we I was in a program called Washington Seminar on Government in Action, and we split up into groups. We researched a variety of issues and then wrote to officials in Washington involved in working those issues and asked for meetings when we traveled there.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.

Alex Barrasso: And one of our stops was at the State Department, and we we were supposed to see someone from African Affairs and what was then Soviet affairs. But before they did that, they put a recruiter in front of us. And I just listened to him and I was just captivated. I said, wait a minute, I can learn languages, travel the world, meet people, experience cultures, represent the United States, and this can be my job. I said, where do I sign up? And from that moment, I knew that I was not going to go to law school. This is what I was going to do. And everything I did from that moment on, at least academically, was was geared towards getting myself ready for the Foreign Service exam. And I had to take it multiple times, which is not uncommon. Okay. Eventually got what is called the Thomas Pickering Fellowship, which through which the State Department covered my last year of grad school, and through which I signed up to spend at least five years in the department. I believe it was five. Maybe it was three that a minimum I had to do. I wasn't worried about the minimum because I knew I was going to do it right. And and that also gave me an internship right after grad school. And I guess I finished grad school in May of 1999, started my internship in June, came back to DC in August, and in September, I was starting entry level training with the State Department. And I didn't know it at the time, but would end up moving to Columbia for my first assignment.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Holy jeez, I'm just blown away. I think there's something else we do have in common. When we speak offline, I want it to be a foreign diplomat as well. I never got there, so. Wow. So over your 26 year career, you have served in places as varied as Colombia, Singapore, Thailand the Czech Republic, Brunei, Saudi Arabia and finally Dubai with the Iran Regional presence office. When you look back across all of these postings, what are 1 or 2 moments that best capture capture for what it meant for you to represent the United States as a blind diplomat?

Alex Barrasso: So Several highlights. Specific to blindness, I think I really enjoyed, for instance, connecting with schools for the blind and blind students in Thailand and in in the Czech Republic in particular in Singapore. I remember when when we got there, my wife and I and our, my guide dog guide dogs were not allowed in.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.

Alex Barrasso: On transit or in public spaces. And I was very outspoken not just privately, but publicly about that. Lots of people told me it's it's not going to happen. Singapore is not ready for it. And it certainly didn't happen while I was there. But right five years after I left, I got an email from one of my former colleagues who said they changed the law. Guide dogs are allowed here. And she said to me, your impetus got people thinking. And we did it from within. We didn't. You know, we need outside pressure or want outside pressure, but we did it from within and it's real. And and you know, I certainly didn't go about it diplomatically. But but the result is there. And I talked to students in the Czech Republic about my career, my experiences, my accommodations, got them thinking about possibilities for them. And then in terms of just sort of broad career accomplishments I'll mention two. Don't. Yes. That don't have anything to do with blindness, really. But one was leading an interagency effort to finalize a $13.1 billion defense sale and, at least according to Commerce Department statistics, that supported 65,000 U.S. jobs. And then another was negotiating the release of a couple and their three minor kids, and I won't mention the country from from military custody where they had been held for a couple of days and having to do that in a foreign language, assembling a team on, on very, very short notice to go and try to make those arrangements. And we succeeded and getting that family out of custody and back into to their life. So those are just a couple of general career highlights that stand out for me.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. I am simply blown away here. So I know from my own life that disability often means constantly negotiating attitudes as much as physical barriers. Can you talk about some of the attitudes or institutional barriers that you encountered in inside the diplomatic world, and how you learned to navigate or push through them?

Alex Barrasso: Sure. So unfortunately, I think that the greatest attitudinal barriers I faced were from my own colleagues in the US government. That's a sad statement, but I think it's true. Certainly I have my allies. And I think we'll talk about them later, but there were also I think the, the default, really, when it comes to getting assignments in our system is that my blindness is is, well, well known to to State Department officials. Yeah. And there are other blind officers in the institution as well. There have been others before us. And I think the bottom line is when we're competing for assignments, we are often passed over in that process because hiring managers will say, well, why should I hire somebody that I have to ensure has reasonable accommodations when I can hire someone who is equally capable, or maybe not, or maybe more capable and doesn't require those accommodations. So why should I hire the officer with a blindness or another disability? I certainly was was denied certain opportunities. Not just in assignments, but I couldn't go to certain events. Like, for instance there were a couple of fly outs to aircraft carriers, including one when I was head of mission in Brunei.

Alex Barrasso: And the Defense Department would not let me go. Out there had the same thing happened in Saudi Arabia. So, so these are just things that happen, and you have to deal with them and push through. I mean, in Brunei, for me, the most important aspect of that was that that the bruneians get to go. So I could have presumably just cancelled the whole thing because I couldn't go, but that that wasn't that wasn't the right thing to do in my estimation. It was important for the bruneians to go and and then we ended up working with them to purchase some some Sikorsky helicopters. And that was not a deal on the same magnitude as the missile defense deal. But it also, it supported over a thousand US jobs. And I'm sure that the the experience on the aircraft carrier had a role to play in that. But you have to just push through these things you know, disappointments and rejections are a part of life, and perhaps more so for those of us with disabilities. And we just but we just have to learn to move on and and move forward.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You eventually rose rose to senior leadership roles, including Deputy chief of mission in and oh, I don't know how to pronounce this UN chargé d'affaires in Brunei. How did you approach leadership as a blind officer, and what did you do deliberately to show colleagues and host country officials that disability and authority not only can but do belong together?

Alex Barrasso: Sure. So like all leaders, I have made my mistakes. I certainly I recognize that I think most importantly in terms of leadership is is being inclusive, listening to everybody around you because everybody has a different set of not just cultural and ethnic backgrounds and linguistic backgrounds, but everybody has a variety of career experiences. And I remember specifically in, in Saudi Arabia managing that program on critical infrastructure protection and public security. I remember going into meetings thinking, okay, I know how we're going to resolve this problem. I know what the solution is. I know how we're going to move this program forward. And I would listen to everybody around me and I would be the last to speak. And on on several occasions, my team convinced me to adopt a different course of action than the one I had in mind. And I would eventually tell them. I would tell them. Okay. This is. This is what I had planned. But no, you've convinced me otherwise. So here's what we're going to do it your way. And in all of those cases, listening to them was the right thing to do. So I think listening first, speaking later, being inclusive asking people who don't necessarily volunteer, volunteer their views to, to provide them. Right. Those those are some real keys, I think, to just general interpersonal leadership. In terms of my blindness, I have told all of my employees I'm an open book. You've probably never worked with a blind person before. Ask me whatever you want. No question is dumb. I'm not going to chastise anybody for a question they ask. My mother told me that someone asked me in school, how do you eat?

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, I've had that one.

Alex Barrasso: With a fork.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Very good. Yeah.

Alex Barrasso: You know and I think that that creates just that openness creates trust. It even led one of my subordinates to come to me and say, you know what? My brother just had a he and his wife just had a baby. Born with your same condition.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, okay.

Alex Barrasso: How how do they get started? What do they do? And I directed her to you know, to resources like the lighthouse, the commissions for the blind. But most importantly, I think I said. I said to her, I said, this is going to be okay. Life isn't over. You know, look at me. I'm here. You just have to instill positivity and give give him the tools that he needs to succeed. There's early child development programs. Et cetera. Et cetera. So hopefully that gets at what you were looking for in the question.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. You know, I had someone ask me the same thing. How do you eat? But I, I was more I probably was shyer than you are. I didn't say I eat with a fork. I just sat there and said, well, I eat the same way that you do, you know? But yeah.

Alex Barrasso: That's a perfectly fine answer.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, well, I like yours. Now, as a blind host myself, I am particularly interested in the nuts and bolts. What kinds of accommodations or technologies have been most essential for you to do your job as a document and as a program director, where do you still find gaps that needed advocacy? Your creative problem solving?

Alex Barrasso: Sure. So there are just several pieces to the accommodations package. Starting starting really at the house just making sure that the appliances are marked and that I can use them, whether it's the microwave or the dishwasher or the dryer, the washer in fact in in Dubai, I even asked my reader assistant to mark the exercise bikes at the gym because self-care is is so important, and and so is exercise, And that was that was really important is really important to me as a person. And so I wanted to make sure that, that I could go to the gym whenever the gym was open, it was right next to my house. I had no excuses and, and and just get on the bike and and do some cardio. So I had her mark, the the bikes, the start button and whatnot. And then in the office. So what I had was jaws. I'm sure most of your listeners are familiar, but for those who are not, you know, a screen reading software for the computer, I had that on all of our computer systems. I had a Braille printer. I also had a note taker. I've gone through several different ones. My my favorite was was the Vario. Varrio, but I. The last one I had was a focus 14. As I said, a Braille embosser and I had a full time reader. Assistant. Also I think in you know, in the State Department in particular, with the number of outside meetings and events, it was really critical to have human assistance for a lot of that. You know, I remember, for instance, in Brunei after events, we would go into the VIP room and all the ministers were there and the military brass were there.

Alex Barrasso: And I would literally work with my reader during the day and say, okay, here are the here are the three issues that I want to make some progress on tonight. And here are the people we need to find. And it was it was literally like target practice. You walk into the VIP room, The door closes behind you and you know the readers scanning the room. Well, I see this. This one, this one and that one. Okay. Let's go. You know, and we would resolve people think that those events are just for enjoyment. And some people think that diplomats just drink coffee and alcohol and well, there is coffee and sometimes there's alcohol, but you actually get things done. I remember in, in one event we were having issues with a particular agreement and my reader spotted the foreign, my Foreign ministry counterpart. I walked up to her, talked to her about it. She said, you know, this is really a ministry of communications issue, she said, but my counterpart from that ministry is at my table. Let me talk to him. And 15 minutes later, what we had not been able to resolve with exchanges of emails and paper in three weeks was done. So and the human assistance was just critical to doing that because I would have never found her on my own and never had that conversation. And who knows how much longer it would have taken. So, so that's that that's the the suite of accommodations on the job for the foreign Service exam. What I got was double time and the exam in Braille.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, great.

Alex Barrasso: I think these days I believe it's all computer based. And so I, I mean, I don't know that Braille would would really come into play presumably. And of course, I haven't. It's been years since I took it, but presumably one would use jaws or any other screen reader of choice to process the entrance exam, assuming that it's accessible. So.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I guess a lot of exams are now going more online as well, right? Like, yeah.

Alex Barrasso: There are I mean, even my, our daughter's you know, they're taking exams online. They're, they're getting put into browsers that lock down the rest of the computer. So they can't use AI or look at their notes, and they're just in those screens that, that don't allow other programs to run, and they're taking their exams. I wonder if those things work with screen readers.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I recently ran into great difficulty taking a cybersecurity exam through Pearson Vue, and I will tell you that my reader could not interpret the diagrams or the images. And so I had to forego the exam. I couldn't take it.

Alex Barrasso: Wow. I'm sorry.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. And right now, I'm really fighting hard to get Pierson to understand what's going on and comp Tia, who is the creator of this exam, to make their exams more user friendly and accessible to persons with who are blind and sighted. So yeah.

Alex Barrasso: No, that's right. That's what has to happen.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. So as chair of the State Department's Disability Action Group, you helped transform an employee network into a serious force for change. What were your priorities when you took on that role, and what are you proudest of achieving and your colleagues with disabilities?

Alex Barrasso: So I would say it, It had already been a force for change. There's lots of things that we can point to in terms of accomplishments. For instance even prior to to me taking over as chair, you know, for instance getting funding for the State Department to have an accessible Ada compliant residence in its housing pool at every post. That was a huge success. I mean, not not just getting the commitment to it, but we actually got the funding for it. Problem?

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.

Alex Barrasso: And that was not done by me. That was that was my predecessors working really hard and tooth and nail and grinding it out and, and with, you know, with colleagues in the relevant offices who, who believed in it and wanted, wanted it to happen and want it to be helpful. I think for me I had a couple of priorities I wanted. First and foremost, you know, it's a large organization, hundreds of members, and not everybody has the same needs or the same interests. Some folks are interested in getting reciprocity, reciprocal recognition for their handicapped car tags from other states for, for State Department parking. And that's incredibly important to them. Others of us were more interested in working on the the promotion process, And could we for instance, could we stop the State Department from counting in the promotion statistics, people who had temporary disabilities. So someone breaks a leg and needs temporary accommodations, and they're counted as disabled if they get promoted. Well, it's not really accurate. But really just trying to serve the whole membership. And I think what I'm most proud of is we were able to launch the hidden disabilities sunflower right across the the State Department headquarters building. Right. And, you know, for those listeners that aren't familiar with it, it's it's basically a a training. Go ahead. Sorry, I've got a I'm hearing a lot of echo.

Alex Barrasso: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's a training program on how to assist individuals with non-apparent disabilities. The training is done by videos, and then you go ahead. Either that you are a person with a non-apparent disability by wearing a yellow lanyard, or you wear a white supporting lanyard, which demonstrates that you are willing to assist individuals with non-apparent disabilities. And we trained over 600 people just in the launch. And then, you know, over the next several months trained a total of over 1500 employees, and I heard a number of stories from colleagues about how they would they would see someone with the white lanyard, and they gave them the confidence to go up to them and say, hey, I actually need some assistance. And they got the assistance they needed and really proud of that. And I think also of the work that the organization did to help employees with their reasonable accommodations processes. It's a difficult process to go through. Yeah. And at different points the process can break down. And you have to understand that not everybody's experience is the same. Not everybody's needs are the same. And just trying to help employees kind of navigate that process and giving them ideas on on what they can. You know what some options are for accommodations.

Screen Reader: She said.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: My clock is starting to wind down. But, you know, here comes a very important question for you. I want to talk about the intersection of your diplomatic life and your chess life. You are a six time US blind chess champion, and you represented the United States at the World Blind Championships. Wow. How did chess first enter your life and what kept you committed to it, even while juggling a demanding career and a family?

Alex Barrasso: So it started for me when I was 11 or 12. Oh my God, I was at a friend's birthday party. We were outside tossing some basketballs around, and all of a sudden everyone just decided they were going in to play chess. And I had no idea what this game was. I had no idea whatsoever. Chris's father realizing that I was lost, took out a board, took me aside from the rest of the group, and let me feel the pieces. Explain that there were two colors. Explain the way the board is set up. We put the pieces on. He walked me through a mock game, and then he contacted the coach at my middle school and said, look, Alex is interested. Would you be able to find a way to get him an adaptive set and to have him participate in the club, not compete on the team, but in the club? And that coach. Alex? I don't know. I have no idea where he is if he's still around. Hopefully he is. But he did that. He found a place for me to get an adapted set and let me join the club and you know, treated me like any other player. And then I ended up transferring after that year to a school with a nationally recognized program you know, just, just just kept at it. I really enjoyed it. I enjoy the challenge. It's it's almost like solving a puzzle. Yeah. And I have, you know, I've haven't always been able to spend as much time as I want on it, but if I've. If I have free time, that's where I want to spend it. Yes. And and you know, I've been able to play not necessarily competitively, but I've been able to play in every country that have been. Had some some great sparring partners that I learned a lot from. Even even when getting beat.

Alex Barrasso: And it's just I don't know, I my wife Brenda sometimes says to me, you work so hard, you really want to spend your weekend?

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, yeah.

Alex Barrasso: Squeezing more out of your brain.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.

Alex Barrasso: And I do, I do. I really, really enjoy it. It's It's a lot. There's there's a lot to learn from it. Discipline, concentration. Yes. So many things. I think we're going to talk about that, but.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I wish myself that I could spend more time playing chess. And I know I keep promising myself I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. So maybe I will be inspired by what you're saying here and get going on it, you know. So yeah, it's I'm sorry.

Alex Barrasso: Go ahead.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Go ahead.

Alex Barrasso: No, it's it's just it's just a fantastic game. And it really is accessible to everybody. And there are so many adaptive sets out there. There are organizations and lots of countries. We've got the US Blind Chess Association in the US. I know there's some similar entity in Canada. You've got the UK BCA as well.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right.

Alex Barrasso: And you know, here in the US, we're some of the things that the USBC is doing is trying to get younger players involved. So we're we have a program right now where we're teaching students at the Saint Joseph School for the blind. We're teaching them virtually. We've provided them with some sets. Oh, nice. So it's just it's great to be able to to get other people interested and hopefully they will get as much from it as as as I have.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Good. I want to squeeze in this question. Many of us who are blind or visually impaired discover that certain activities give us confidence and community. What has chess given you emotionally and socially, and how has it influenced the way you think and make decisions as a diplomat and as a leader?

Alex Barrasso: I think one of the keys influences is is on decision making. I mean, whether it's a chess game or professional issue, you know, we can always spend more time making decisions. It doesn't necessarily mean we're going to make a different decision, or maybe not even a better decision. And so at a certain point, you know, you have to be comfortable with ambiguity, right. Because you're never going to almost never going to have all the information you want.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: To know.

Alex Barrasso: Before making a decision. And, and I think as a result of playing chess, I've probably gotten more comfortable with that ambiguity professionally. You just have to make a decision. And, you know, I heard a couple of mentors say, well, don't don't open an email twice. You know, don't spend more, more than this amount of time on this. And I think Yeah, I mean, you just you have to get comfortable with with making decisions when you don't have all the information you want. So that's, that's in terms of contribution to my professional life, I think that's that's the big one. Socially, in terms of community. It's a great conversation starter. You know, we we got in Saudi Arabia, we had pizza nights at the embassy once a week, and we managed to tie chess and pizza night together. And we had you know, we had kids coming in just to, just to play. And maybe they wouldn't sit for more than ten minutes at a time, but they they'd come back in and continue those games. And, you know, we, we got a few sets that we left with the employee association. You know, and I've just I've had a chance to play, as I said, in every country that I've been. And it's you know, it's a great way to meet people. Yes.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes.

Alex Barrasso: And just just connect over something that's not professional. I mean and in terms of emotions, I think my mom tells me I used to get very upset about losses, and I would sulk, and I would let the, you know, the loss be a factor in how I played my next game. I don't think I do that quite as much now. You learn to control it. You learn to move on, learn from the mistake, and hopefully don't make the same mistake again. So yeah, I think I think those are a couple of the highlights.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, the clock is telling me that we don't have much time. But, Alex, give us some final words of wisdom before we close our podcast. What can you tell our listeners? What message of inspiration or motivation do you have? Is it reach for the sky? Don't be afraid. Go out there. Tell us what your personal messages.

Alex Barrasso: I would say do not be afraid. Pursue your your ambitions. Make sure that you find the allies. Because let me tell you, there are going to be plenty of detractors out there. The allies are also out there, but you've got to find them. They don't necessarily find you. Right. So find them and lean on them and tell them what you need and tell them why you need it. And those who really want to help will listen to that and will act on it. And I would also say take care of yourself physically. Mentally, I'm not doing as much of that as I should right now. But it's incredibly important. Just just find something that you like to do, whether it's swimming, bike riding, going to the gym, whatever. Find that something and do it regularly. Keep yourself in shape. And and just just be vocal, as assertive without being demanding about what it is. You need to succeed in whatever role you're in, whether it's high school, whether it's college, whether it's professional. Otherwise, just speak up. And the and the allies who who want you to succeed will will respond to that. And and in a positive way.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Alex, I'd like to thank you so much for this interview. I've learned so much about the diplomatic service. I've learned, you know, I think I'm not alone in saying that, you know, we travel the same road. And for a blind or sight impaired person, it's it's not easy, but it's doable. So thank you so much for this interview.

Alex Barrasso: Donna, thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity. And I hope this was useful for your listeners and look forward to connecting offline.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think it will be useful, inspirational, motivational. And we will connect offline. And I want to thank you again, Alex. Thank you very, very much.

Alex Barrasso: Thank you. Take care.

Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Take care now. Bye bye.

Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at Donna at gmail.com. Until next time.