Today on the Social-Engineer Podcast: The Security Awareness Series, Chris is joined by Michelle Li. Chris and Michelle delve into the transformative role of AI in social engineering, highlighting both its potential and pitfalls. Their conversation emphasizes the critical need for empathy in leadership and the importance of maintaining human-centric processes in an increasingly automated world. [Nov 17, 2025]

00:00 - Intro

00:27 - Intro Links:

- Social-Engineer.com - http://www.social-engineer.com/

- Offensive Security Vishing Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/vishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fvishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166287612%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NXq0Bl03cTcJ9v241KDulliLiORyyzXl2KzzlYgYEiM%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/vishing/

- Offensive Security SMiShing Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fsmishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166308476%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=DxB3413PhERNnL8jfS7bqn4SR2K8a91Xd1mgdp4I6uI%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/

- Offensive Security Phishing Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fsmishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166318797%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=189JBtHVKoEadOdMEEC5jgfys8%2BYKeuLtGuc6lmGJOw%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/smishing/

- Call Back Phishing - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/call-back-phishing/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fcall-back-phishing%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166328468%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=C%2FttWKvmWgXSpgeB9DJ29fBzVKATgcsEdrPPoZO26Uc%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/call-back-phishing/

- Adversarial Simulation Services - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/adversarial-simulation/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fadversarial-simulation%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166340710%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CqdidOE8%2FFrhVu3xln47vizcVspZBGqCExPImdQP3rs%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/adversarial-simulation/

- Social Engineering Risk Assessments - https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/social-engineering-risk-assessment/. Click or tap to follow the link." href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.social-engineer.com%2Foffensive-security%2Fsocial-engineering-risk-assessment%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ca71f08b578cc4babb1d008de126bc0e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638968451166352842%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=daatLzSDbbo32qUTEfe7VDURN1oT4XE%2FsJ2nxH5LnjY%3D&reserved=0" rel="noopener">https://www.social-engineer.com/offensive-security/social-engineering-risk-assessment/

- Social-Engineer channel on SLACK - https://social-engineering-hq.slack.com/ssb

- CLUTCH - http://www.pro-rock.com/

- innocentlivesfoundation.org - http://www.innocentlivesfoundation.org/

02:34 - Michelle Li Intro

03:14 - A Roundabout Journey

05:40 - The Importance of Legacy

07:26 - Using AI Honorably

10:00 - The Effects of AI on Social Engineering

11:52 - AI for Protection

13:47 - Still About the Human Role

14:49 - Masterclass Ad

16:27 - Origins of FASE

20:01 - Reflection of Self

25:52 - The Role of Core Principles

30:15 - New Kid in Town

34:08 - Find Michelle Li Online

- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-li-mba-ssbb-0850b975/

- Website: https://www.bisblox.com/

34:47 - Book Recommendations

- Blink - Malcolm Gladwell

- The Book of Forgiving - Desmond Tutu

36:11 - Mentors

38:52 - Wrap Up & Outro

- www.social-engineer.com

- www.innocentlivesfoundation.org