From the Great Society to No Child Left Behind, policymakers from both parties have argued America’s schools are broken and need fixing. These failing schools, the thinking goes, exacerbate the inequality between advantaged groups and everyone else. But this approach comes with risks. For one, how might that focus on education overlook other, potentially more consequential sources of inequality? And are America’s schools really that bad?

Doug Downey is a professor of sociology at The Ohio State University. In his book, How Schools Really Matter, he argues that schools do more to reduce inequality than previously assumed. More pernicious sources of inequality, he writes, are found elsewhere — and, unfortunately, may require policy changes that are more politically inconvenient than education reform. On this episode, he discusses his work with host Geoff Wodtke.