In this episode, I sit down with Dr. David Klurfeld—longtime USDA scientist and one of the few insiders to publicly challenge the WHO's classification of red meat as a carcinogen. We go deep into the flawed evidence behind the infamous 2015 IARC report, why nutritional epidemiology often fails to prove causality, and how a small group of researchers helped shape global policy with low-quality science. If you've ever felt confused about meat, saturated fat, or dietary guidelines, this conversation will help you think critically about what “counts” as evidence—and who gets to decide.

We cover:

• Dr. Klurfeld’s personal journey and lessons from a career in public health
• Why the 2015 IARC red meat classification was based on weak and inconsistent evidence
• How observational studies and “allegiance bias” mislead nutrition science
• The politics of dietary guidelines and the role of the USDA and WHO
• What the media got wrong—and why red meat remains a nutrient-dense food

Who is Dr. David Klurfeld?

Dr. David Klurfeld is a nutritional scientist and former National Program Leader for Human Nutrition at the USDA’s Agricultural Research Service. He also served as Professor and Chair of Nutrition and Food Science at Wayne State University and Associate Editor of The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. He has authored more than 200 scientific publications and was one of 22 experts invited to the 2015 IARC working group on red meat and cancer. He is a longtime advocate for scientific integrity in public health policy.

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00:00 – Dr. Gabrielle Lyon introduces Dr. David Klurfeld and the controversy around red meat and cancer.

03:18 – Dr. Klurfeld explains his unconventional path into nutrition science and his early influences.

06:07 – He describes how "allegiance bias" distorts nutrition research outcomes.

09:08 – Klurfeld calls the IARC red meat classification “the most frustrating professional experience of my life.”

12:15 – He explains why epidemiology and food questionnaires are unreliable for determining dietary risk.

15:30 – Red meat is misleadingly grouped with engine exhaust and radiation in cancer risk categories.

22:15 – Many IARC scientists had pre-existing biases and used the panel to reinforce prior publications.

26:08 – Klurfeld critiques the misuse of correlation in nutrition

32:06 – He debunks the commonly cited 17% increase in colorectal cancer risk from red meat.

38:50 – Klurfeld details his role overseeing USDA human nutrition research and Dietary Guidelines input.

48:44 – Activist groups filed FOIA requests to access years of Klurfeld’s emails during public-private research.

1:09:21 – He explains why nitrogen content alone is an inadequate way to assess protein quality.

Disclaimer: The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Podcast and YouTube are for general information purposes only and do not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is formed. The use of information on this podcast, YouTube, or materials linked from this podcast or YouTube is at the user's own risk. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their health care professional for any such conditions.