Trying vs. Training: John Ortberg on True Transformation

No Regrets Leadership Podcast

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Today on the No Regrets Podcast, Steve is joined by author and pastor John Ortberg for a powerful conversation about transformation—what it means to move beyond trying harder toward training our lives around the practices that truly change us into a more godly person.

John unpacks the difference between behavior modification and genuine spiritual transformation, sharing how Jesus invites us not just to follow Him but to become like Him. They discuss what it means to be a godly person first, and then a godly man—loving God with everything we've got, loving others well, and building character that lasts.

Drawing from his new book Steps, John highlights how the church can learn again from the wisdom of the 12 Steps: that real change begins with surrender—"I can't. He can. I think I'll let Him." Transformation, he explains, always requires both a way of life and a community of people who walk alongside us. John and Steve also talk about the role of real accountability—how openness, honesty, and voluntary transparency create the soil where lasting change can take root.

This conversation will challenge and inspire you to live transparently, pursue Christlikeness, and embrace a path of discipleship that leads to joy and wholeness.

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