The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has become one of the most controversial initiatives of the Trump administration, but what does it actually represent? We're joined by Shawn Steel, National Committeeman for the Republican National Committee, and Professor Luke Nichter, historian at Chapman University, to explore the deeper meaning behind this government restructuring effort.
Our conversation reveals how DOGE taps into profound middle-class frustration with government spending and opacity. As Steele explains, "Elon Musk is taking the great angst of the great middle class in America... What has been going on all these years? Where is this money going?" This sentiment has fueled a movement that extends far beyond partisan politics, challenging what many see as an entrenched administrative state insulated from accountability.
We examine fascinating demographic shifts showing how government employment has effectively created a new privileged class in many regions, especially in California where public sector jobs have grown at three times the rate of private employment while paying approximately twice the median income. This transformation represents what Joel Kotkin describes as "class warfare," pitting traditional middle-class Americans against a government-employed "clerisy" class.
The discussion also places DOGE within broader historical context, suggesting we may be witnessing the early stages of a political realignment similar to shifts that occurred in the 1960s and 1970s. Trump has successfully channeled widespread resentment among Americans who feel their tax dollars repeatedly bail out elites during crises while they themselves receive little support. As this movement spreads to state governments, we may be entering a new era of governance that emphasizes transparency and accountability.
Join us to understand not just the mechanics of DOGE, but how it reflects deep currents in American society that are reshaping our political landscape. Whether you see it as long-overdue reform or dangerous disruption, this conversation will give you valuable context for one of today's most consequential political developments.

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The Center for Demographics and Policy focuses on research and analysis of global, national, and regional demographic trends and explores policies that might produce favorable demographic results over time. It involves Chapman students in demographic research under the supervision of the Center’s senior staff.
Students work with the Center’s director and engage in research that will serve them well as they look to develop their careers in business, the social sciences, and the arts. Students also have access to our advisory board, which includes distinguished Chapman faculty and major demographic scholars from across the country and the world.
For additional information, please contact Mahnaz Asghari, Associate Director for the Center for Demographics and Policy, at (714) 744-7635 or [email protected].
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This show is presented by the Chapman Center for Demographics and Policy, which focuses on research and analysis of global, national and regional demographic trends and explores policies that might produce favorable demographic results over time.