Why do so many people insist on believing in systems that hurt them? Why do so many of us dwell in fantasy, rather than facing reality? (Wait, is dwelling in fantasy an option? Why weren’t we told?) In this episode of WHAT DO WE WANT? (a podcast about what brings social movements together and drives them apart) Max and Sarah dive deep into the murky waters of FANTASY, desire and illusion to ask questions like: How do we break through destructive ideologies? How can we win arguments (and when should we)? And should we just abandon activism? Then we’re joined by veteran Toronto-based activist, movement trainer and editor Sharmeen Khan, who tells us about the state repression that broke her fantasies and what she dreams of now. It's podcasting that accompanies you right to the precipice of Mount Doom and helps you throw away your Precious. ACTION ALERT! Our guest, Sharmeen, is facing outrageous, repressive charges for standing up for Palestinian human rights. Read Naomi Klein’s summary of the case (https://breachmedia.ca/naomi-klein-calls-on-heather-reisman-drop-charges-indigo-11/), and please consider donating to the legal defence fund (https://www.tcjf.ca) or signing the letter demanding the charges be dropped (https://www.cjpme.org/drop_the_charges). To learn more about the many things we do and support us financially or otherwise, visit us at Sense and Solidarity .org