Discover the science of persuasive messaging with communications expert Anat Shenker-Osorio in this compelling archive episode from Benn Marine's former podcast, Ocean of Organizing. While the Campfire team dives into 2026 planning, this conversation from 2019 remains strikingly relevant for anyone crafting messages that move people to action.
Anat, whose research has appeared in The Atlantic, Boston Globe, and The Guardian, shares game-changing insights about how progressive campaigns can craft winning messages. She breaks down the fundamental flaws in typical progressive communication—what she calls the "Boy, have I got a problem for you?" approach—and offers a powerful alternative framework that starts with shared values rather than problems.
Beyond specific messaging tactics, this episode explores the deeper philosophy of movement building. Anat emphasizes that effective campaigns focus on what they're for rather than what they oppose, noting that "what we fight, we feed." She shares examples from successful campaigns around the world—from New Zealand's election of Jacinda Ardern to Minnesota's defeat of Islamophobia—showcasing how positive, values-based messaging transforms outcomes.
Whether you're planning a campaign, crafting organizational messaging, or simply curious about how language shapes our political landscape, this conversation offers invaluable tools for communicating with impact. Listen for practical frameworks you can immediately apply to your own work, and discover why creating hope through positive messaging remains essential even in challenging times.

ASO Communications – This is Anat’s website and where you can learn more about her and her research. If you want to go straight to her research you should follow this link. https://asocommunications.com/

Brave New Words Podcast – You can go behind the scenes on different political campaigns and efforts with Anat and listen in on how different tactics in messaging were used and their outcomes. You can also find this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. https://bravenewwordspod.com

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