In this conversation, I explore the thorny question of artistic value with philosopher James Young from the University of Victoria, who makes a compelling case that we can indeed distinguish between great art and mere entertainment. Young argues that while we may no longer have a coherent definition of what constitutes "art" in our post-conceptual, post-abstract world, we can still meaningfully discuss what makes some artistic works superior to others. Using the provocative example of Bach versus Justin Bieber, he contends that longevity, moral insight, and the ability to illuminate the human condition separate enduring masterpieces from fleeting popular entertainment. We dive deep into the mechanisms by which art functions as a vehicle for knowledge not through general laws like science, but by helping us understand universal truths through particular experiences.

Our discussion reveals a fascinating tension between the democratic impulse to say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and the intuitive sense that some aesthetic judgments are simply wrong that claiming Justin Bieber surpasses Bach is like saying "a pond is as extensive as the ocean." Young draws on David Hume's classic formulation of this aesthetic paradox while exploring how art can expand our moral imagination, particularly through literature's ability to let us walk in others' shoes and music's capacity to broaden our emotional range. We examine the psychological evidence that reading literary fiction actually increases empathy and moral development, and consider whether similar mechanisms operate in music appreciation.

The conversation takes on broader cultural significance as we discuss the systematic defunding of arts education and Young's provocative suggestion that this represents a deliberate strategy by "shadowy corporate overlords" to prevent the kind of compassionate human connection that art naturally fosters. Throughout, Young maintains that great art differs fundamentally from scientific knowledge in its approach: while science seeks universal laws to explain particulars, art uses particular experiences to illuminate universal human truths. This requires not fewer artistic works but many more, as we need diverse perspectives and conflicting viewpoints to fully understand the complexity of human experience, making the current cultural devaluation of artistic education not just aesthetically impoverishing but epistemologically dangerous.