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Planting Seeds: Networking and Maneuvering Unexpected Job Loss with Jason Gass (1/2)

16d ago 39:06

MP3•Episode home

“Unfortunately, your role at this company has been eliminated.” These are the words none of us want to hear, but it’s a reality many in tech are facing. What would you do if that unexpected call came tomorrow? This week’s episode is one we all need to hear.

Jason Gass returns (this time as a guest) in episode 342 to share his story of navigating a layoff. You’ll hear about Jason’s initial reaction to the news and what he did next to take action.

Listen closely to hear how Jason treated the job opportunities he was targeting like a sales pipeline to remain focused, where he looked for emotional support, the tools that helped sharpen his resume, and how nurturing and leaning on his professional network made all the difference along the way.

Original Recording Date: 08-07-2025

Topics – Jason Gass Returns, When a Phone Call Changes Everything, Sources of Support and Maintaining Connections, Emotional Balance and Job Opportunities as a Sales Pipeline, Helpful Tools in the Job Search Process, The Network Effect

2:20 – Jason Gass Returns

Jason Gass joined us as a guest host for a series of episodes reviewing the book Finish by Jon Acuff and is back this week as a guest.
- The book series on Finish was published in episodes 272 – 275, and you can listen back to them using the link above.
- The book series idea came from Jason, and so did the idea for the discussion today.
We wanted to take this opportunity to tell Jason’s story through the lens of layoffs across the technology industry.
- Many of our friends and colleagues in the industry have been met with unexpected job loss over the last couple of years. Jason says it’s been a journey going through this same process, and he’s here to share what worked and what didn’t work.

3:32 – When a Phone Call Changes Everything

What type of role was Jason in before the layoff happened, and what did he like most about it?
- For about the last 5 years, Jason has worked in a sales engineering / technical pre-sales role for different technology vendors.
- As part of the role, Jason has greatly enjoyed working with both customers and partners to solve problems and improve the day-to-day lives of technology professionals. The work is dynamic, and each customer has a different problem.
What was the day of the layoff like, and what was Jason’s immediate reaction?
- Jason was working at a company that had been previously acquired. There were changes happening, and Jason and his teammates knew they might be impacted by these changes but had no idea of when.
- Jason remembers getting a call to let him know his position was being eliminated. It was a very quick call and very formal.
- Once Jason’s phone rang that day, he knew exactly what was going to happen.
- “I was prepared as much as I could. It’s still a gut punch. Man, I can’t believe I didn’t make the cut. What’s wrong with me? Why was it me vs. somebody else?” – Jason Gass, on what goes through your mind in a layoff situation
  - There was still negative self-talk despite expecting that layoffs were going to happen.
- Jason tells us he was laid off a couple of times during the 2008 financial crisis.
  - “Looking back, that’s probably a good experience because I’ve gone through it once before. The one thing…I learned from that experience is these things happen, and a lot of good things happen afterwards. But it’s hard to have that lens when it first happens…. Everything emotionally hits you. All of those thoughts start going through your head….” – Jason Gass
  - People who get laid off are worried about paying the bills, supporting their family, and how long it will take to get their next job.
  - It’s easier to see the positives that came from a situation like this when you’re looking back on it later. Maybe someone took a different role, got to work for a different company that excited them, or even made more money.
  - Jason says we can get complacent and lose sight of our value in the marketplace. A layoff situation can force people out of their comfort zone.
- John reminds us that we’re not living in the age of having a job for life. Companies can be pretty ruthless when eliminating roles, and this is a fact.
  - Jason says back in 2008 he started thinking of himself as a line item on a spreadsheet. Though it can be hard for us to think this way, it’s business and the way the world works.
  - “It reminded me…I’m still a player in this game, and I still have control. It’s what I do with that control.” – Jason Gass
  - This line of thinking reminded Jason to understand his value in the marketplace and to keep his skill set current to provide options if a layoff happened or if he just wanted to make a change.
- Nick thinks we might not be mindful of the control we have or might not exercise it because we’re so focused on our daily work.
  - This is partially due to craving the structure of routines.
  - John says if we acknowledge a layoff as a possibility, it means we have to react to it before it happens (even if it doesn’t happen). But a lot of times we don’t want to have to think about it and choose the path of avoidance.
- If you get laid off, Jason says it’s ok to take time for yourself (a few days, maybe even a week to let the news sink in). In fact, you should. He did not do this and started making calls within 5-10 minutes of receiving the news.
  - “It caught up with me about 4 days later. That emotional drain finally came down on me, and it mentally drained me.” – Jason Gass
  - In giving advice to people who have been in this situation (unexpected job loss), Jason tells people it’s ok to take time to process. But after that, the job is to find a new job. This means keeping a normal, structured routine. If you get up and go to the gym every day, keep doing it.
  - At work we would be completing a specific task / set of role-specific tasks. The tasks you need to complete after being laid off include things like revising your resume, updating your LinkedIn profile, contacting people in our network, and finding in-person meetup groups to attend.
  - Jason emphasizes the importance of meeting people in person for professional networking and support. It’s a bit of a lost art after COVID. Listen closely to Jason’s description of one specific local meetup group supporting people looking for employment.

10:34 – Sources of Support and Maintaining Connections

Sometimes when people lose a job at a specific company, they struggle with their identity. Was this a challenge for Jason?
- Jason has held jobs he loved, but they were not his only identity. Many people consider their work or their job the entirety of their identity.
- “There’s things outside the workplace that I have so much more passion for.” – Jason Gass
- Knowing a layoff might happen helped Jason prepare and prevent too much tying of identity to the job. But he also stayed educated on the opportunities available in the job market.
- Being in Dallas / Fort Worth, Jason has read about many companies moving their headquarters to this area. But with many others in the market for jobs right now, there is a lot of competition.
Was there a specific process Jason went through to combat the emotional drain of the layoff event we discussed earlier?
- Jason says there were good days and bad days.
- Some days were filled with many interviews. Others were filled with rejection and news that a specific interview process would not continue.
- Some of the things that really helped Jason through this process were…
  - Talking to his wife
  - Keeping in touch with colleagues who had been laid off as well as those who remained at the company
  - One of Jason’s colleagues created a chat group with displaced people across the country who were going through the same thing, and it was great to be connected with others who were going through the same thing.
  - An account rep Jason worked with had been laid off a number of months prior to Jason but had gotten back on his feet. The account rep told Jason to call him any time, even if it was to vent and let out some of his emotions and frustrations.
  - “I didn’t realize how important that was when I gave it to him until I needed that same platform.” – Jason Gass, on getting support from a co-worker he had previously supported after a layoff event
- John highlights the importance of having different people who can support us through these difficult situations. It’s not just family or a specific peer. It’s many others who can support us.
  - Jason highlights the group chat as something that worked extremely well.
  - If Jason saw a job listing that might help a member of the group, he would share it. This included roles that were not suited for him as well as roles that listed openings in multiple locations. Jason would even offer to introduce members of the group to people he met as part of the interview process where applicable.
  - “One of the nice things is I met a lot of great people. I didn’t get chosen. I might not have been the final candidate through the process, but I made a lot of great connections through the whole process. So even if I didn’t get chosen, I still made connections where I could say, ‘hey, I know someone over here. Do you mind talking to them?’” – Jason Gass
Did Jason ask people he met through interviews to stay in touch as a way to maintain connections over time?
- Many of the people Jason interviewed with would connect with him on LinkedIn. In cases where he was not selected for a role, people encouraged Jason to reach out to them in the future.
- Jason made a point of letting people know he appreciated them taking the time to interview him and would often send LinkedIn messages of thanks.
- Jason tells us that solution engineering / sales engineering is a big field, but there aren’t a lot of players.
- “I relate it to people like trading baseball cards. You start seeing the same people. They just rotate from one company to another…. It didn’t work out this time around. That’s understandable. We don’t know where we’re going to be three, four, five years down the road.” – Jason Gass
- John tells us hiring managers are always looking to build a bench of talent from which they can pull at a later time. Likely any candidate who made it to the final round of interviews could do the job well and is someone a hiring manager would want to keep in touch with for possible future openings.
- Jason tells the story of when he first got into sales engineering. He interviewed with a company and did not get the job at the time. But he stayed in contact with the hiring manager on LinkedIn.
  - The hiring manager would see Jason posting content on LinkedIn now and then.
  - Roughly 3 years later, the same hiring manager had an opening on his team. Jason reached out about the role, and the hiring manager both remembered Jason and said he would love to have Jason interview for the opening.

16:52 – Emotional Balance and Job Opportunities as a Sales Pipeline

John brings up the necessity of emotional balance during a job search. The job search process is like sales processing or maintaining a sales pipeline. There seems to be more at stake in selecting your next career move versus making a sale. How did Jason handle the emotional regulation?
- Jason thought about applying for and looking for jobs just like a sales pipeline. Looking back, he calls it a marathon.
- Until you get an offer letter that you will accept, you keep focused on pursuing opportunities in your pipeline and generating new opportunities. This means continuing with interview processes, networking, and submitting applications.
- Jason was laid off at the beginning of November. He interviewed hard for 4 months and says it was even more difficult than working a normal job.
- “And I think the hardest part about it is that you always have to be on. You always have to be ready to take a call from a recruiter or a hiring manager…. I remember I interviewed so much in 1 week I talked so much I lost my voice…because you’re always on…. It’s hard. We’re not used to talking that long…. We’re not going out there and talking for 4, 6 hours a day like a professional speaker.” – Jason Gass
- At this time of year, some companies were looking to fill roles quickly. Jason recounts being out Christmas shopping and being asked if he could take a call about a job. Other times he had to take 4 calls in a row with only a short break during the entire period.
- Nick mentions people like Brendon Burchard work out heavily to be able to speak for 9 hours per day.
- Jason says he was mentally exhausted after so much interviewing, but it was good from the standpoint of having so much activity.
- “I knew something was going to happen. I knew offer was going to come. I just had to stay diligent.” – Jason Gass
Was there a specific system Jason used to track all of the applications and interviews and follow ups he needed to do?
- Jason kept track of where he applied, who he spoke with, and action items.
- He would keep track of salary information for the roles as well. Many of the jobs had a large salary range, and it was important to see where he would be in that range.
- Jason shares the story of a friend who applied for nearly 1000 jobs last year. This friend had multiple resumes and was tracking which resume got the most responses and focused time on refining it even more.
- Many job applicants are taking a shotgun approach to applying for jobs, and it is causing some problems.
  - A single job posting might get 500 applicants, but how are candidates filtered on the back end?
  - A friend told Jason the number of applicants for a job on LinkedIn is really how many people clicked the link to apply. But not everyone who clicks the link fills out the application.
  - For a position with 500 applicants, someone would remove people not in the right geographic area. That might get it down to 300. If you trim down the candidates who don’t have the right skillset, that might narrow the list to 100 people to choose from for interviews.
  - “It’s caveats on both sides because you might be a great candidate for the role. You might read that description and say, ‘hey, I can do everything in that job. But how do I get my resume noticed if there’s so many other people?’ …There’s a lot of cloudiness in the water. So how do you make yourself stand out?” – Jason Gass

22:57 – Helpful Tools in the Job Search Process

John agrees with the recommendation against playing a numbers game. He advocates qualifying the positions you’re looking for and doing a custom resume for each position. The key words and skills will be different for each job to which you apply.
- Job descriptions may even have variations of the same term / terms. He gives the example of MEDDIC and MEDDPICC as qualification tools for selling.
- The time and effort for a custom resume are significant.
- Jason was given advice to use AI to help with his resume. There are many tools out there.
- “I feel like we’re having AI wars. We have AIs writing resumes, and then we have AI analyzing the resumes before a single person even looks at it.” – Jason Gass
- Jason mentions LinkedIn’s Premium Career subscription as a helpful tool. There are AI tools built into it.
  - Jason liked the fact that he could take his resume, compare it to a job description, and the tool would make suggested enhancements to the resume to fit the specific job description.
  - Jason was able to spot patterns in the key words that would come up again and again, and using the tool helped him tailor a resume to these specific systems for job applications.
  - “And, of course, AI is not the last step. After AI, you still need to go through and groom it. Is this accurate? Is this true? Does it sound like me? You still have to go and do the finishing touches.” – Jason Gass
  - With the help of the tool, Jason was able to get his LinkedIn profile up to date, write some cover letters, and write some messages to contact some hiring messages through InMail. It helped make Jason’s writing better on all of these fronts.
- “I finally got comfortable enough just reaching out to people that I may not know.” – Jason Gass
- Jason made a list of the top companies he wanted to target in his job search. If he knew someone working at a specific target company, he would reach out to that person.
  - Reaching out to people you know at companies can help you get connected with a recruiter or hiring manager and get a resume in front of them.
- In the case of companies where Jason didn’t have any professional connections, he would find the local sales engineering manager and reach out to that person. He calls this “planting seeds.”
  - Jason would express interest in the company and ask these managers if they know of any openings coming available in the next few months. For context, Jason was reaching out during the 4th quarter of a lot of companies, and some tend to open new roles in their 1st quarter of the following fiscal year.
  - John emphasizes that hiring managers like to have a bench of talent they can put into their pipeline when a job requisition opens. There is nothing wrong with contacting a hiring manager, stating that you understand there are no current openings, and asking for an informational interview. This allows the manager to get to know you a little bit and might help put you on that bench of talent for future consideration.

27:59 – The Network Effect

Jason says he never turned on the Open to Work indicator on LinkedIn.
- “For the first few months, I just targeted my network or LinkedIn, and in the end, that’s what got me 95% of my interviews…working my network, talking to people, connecting with people through several different means and avenues.” – Jason Gass
- Jason got the role he has now as a result of leaning on his professional network.
Jason tells us when he was first laid off, he started calling people in his network inside the company first to look for open roles.
- Even though his role was eliminated, Jason understood other roles within the company could still be a good fit.
Jason also mentions calling a long-time friend and someone who was his sales engineer from years ago.
- This friend had moved on to another company over time. Once Jason relayed the story of what happened, his friend found out who the hiring manager was in Jason’s area.
- “He didn’t know the hiring manager. But he found who it was, made an e-mail introduction, and I found that the company was a sponsor at a local tech event coming up in 2 weeks.” – Jason Gass, on leveraging help from a friend
- Jason asked the hiring manager if he planned to be at the local tech event, and as it turns out, the manager would be there. After meeting the manager in person at this event, Jason was asked to share his resume with the hiring manager.
  - Though the hiring manager shared Jason’s resume with others he knew, there were no openings at the time. But Jason’s friend reached out to him months later about something different.
  - “Nothing came out of it then. We’re talking November time frame…. That seed that I planted in November ended up sprouting in February and then in the end landed me a position.” – Jason Gass
How did Jason know who to call first when the layoff happened? Did he have a mental list in mind already?
- The first person Jason called was a manager of his from a previous job who had remained a mentor for many years.
- They had talked fairly recently, and Jason had been wondering if the role he was in really was the right one. Jason wanted to understand what else might be available and wanted to reach back out to the former manager to see if he knew of any openings.
- “I talked to probably a dozen people the first day. I got the call at like 9 o’clock. I was on the phone until 5 o’clock that afternoon talking to a variety of different people.” – Jason Gass
- Jason talked to other colleagues inside the company to see if they were safe from the layoffs or knew about internal openings in other departments. People with longevity at a company often know about job openings quickly.
- “I think the first good step is saying…if I don’t have to go out there in the wild, wild west and look for a whole new job…if I’m happy with the company…can I just migrate into another role? Could I cover a different territory? Instead of being pre-sales, maybe I could go to post-sales. Or could I get into consulting or something of that nature?” – Jason Gass
- Nick suggests if you think layoffs will happen at your company, consider making that top 5 or top 10 list of who you would call to store where it can be retrieved if you find yourself in the same situation as Jason.
- “I think about it, and a lot of times people reach out only when they want something. How long did they maintain the relationship? I’ve learned to try to keep some ongoing relationship with my network.” – Jason Gass
- People will post about work anniversaries or achieving certifications. Consider sending them a message to ask how they are doing. Suggest you catch up with them. Jason says it doesn’t have to be as frequent as once per month and could even be once per year.
- Jason mentions the importance of publishing content and has posted about his involvement in Toasmasters over time. He tells us this would come up in conversations when he was looking for work.
  - “People I hadn’t seen in years. ‘Hey, I know we haven’t talked in a while, but I’ve followed you on LinkedIn and saw that you’re in Toastmasters…. I’ve always thought about doing that. Can you tell me more about it?’ That rapport that we may have had years ago just picked right up…. I find it really important to maintain some form of relationships with…my network so that when I did reach out and say, ‘hey, I’m looking for a job’ it wasn’t about what can you do for me.” – Jason Gass
- Jason had been maintaining relationships with people in his network independent of whether the layoff was going to happen. He reminds us that the tech space is small but ever changing.

Mentioned in the Outro

Any idea who you would call if this happened to you?
- It’s good to have a list of people in mind, and it’s good to start connecting with people in your network more often than you are now. Amidst our busy lives, we need to make time to connect with others both inside and outside our company.
In Episode 317 – Own Your Job Search: Be the Captain, Find a Harbor Pilot, we talked about the concept of a harbor pilot who can help you navigate the hiring process at a company where you would like to work. Jason leveraged his professional network to do this. Plant those seeds now!
Are you attending in-person meetup groups?
- If not, Nick suggests going to any meetup group that fits an interest you have, even if it falls outside of technology. You would be surprised at how many people you meet work in tech but look to other interests as well.
Jason mentioned being part of a chat group of other people who also experienced unexpected job loss. Would you be willing to lend a helping hand to others like he has?
Remember to check out following free resources:
- Our Layoff Resources Page – a list of the most impactful conversations we’ve had on the show focused on the topic of layoffs.
- The Career Uncertainty Action Guide with the 5 pillars of career resilience and AI prompts to help you work through overwhelm, financial planning, and a layoff scenario
Do you know someone who has a layoff story that needs to be told to encourage others in the community? Send us an e-mail to make guest suggestions!

Contact the Hosts

The hosts of Nerd Journey are John White and Nick Korte.
- E-mail: [email protected]
- DM us on Twitter/X @NerdJourney
- Connect with John on LinkedIn or DM him on Twitter/X @vJourneyman
- Connect with Nick on LinkedIn or DM him on Twitter/X @NetworkNerd_
- Leave a Comment on Your Favorite Episode on YoutTube
If you’ve been impacted by a layoff or need advice, check out our Layoff Resources Page.
If uncertainty is getting to you, check out or Career Uncertainty Action Guide with a checklist of actions to take control during uncertain periods and AI prompts to help you think through topics like navigating a recent layoff, financial planning, or managing your mindset and being overwhelmed.

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Planting Seeds: Networking and Maneuvering Unexpected Job Loss with Jason Gass (1/2)

Nerd Journey: Career Advice for the Technology Professional

13 subscribers

published 16d ago

MP3•Episode home

Jason Gass returns (this time as a guest) in episode 342 to share his story of navigating a layoff. You’ll hear about Jason’s initial reaction to the news and what he did next to take action.

Original Recording Date: 08-07-2025

Topics – Jason Gass Returns, When a Phone Call Changes Everything, Sources of Support and Maintaining Connections, Emotional Balance and Job Opportunities as a Sales Pipeline, Helpful Tools in the Job Search Process, The Network Effect

2:20 – Jason Gass Returns

Jason Gass joined us as a guest host for a series of episodes reviewing the book Finish by Jon Acuff and is back this week as a guest.
- The book series on Finish was published in episodes 272 – 275, and you can listen back to them using the link above.
- The book series idea came from Jason, and so did the idea for the discussion today.
We wanted to take this opportunity to tell Jason’s story through the lens of layoffs across the technology industry.
- Many of our friends and colleagues in the industry have been met with unexpected job loss over the last couple of years. Jason says it’s been a journey going through this same process, and he’s here to share what worked and what didn’t work.

3:32 – When a Phone Call Changes Everything

What type of role was Jason in before the layoff happened, and what did he like most about it?
- For about the last 5 years, Jason has worked in a sales engineering / technical pre-sales role for different technology vendors.
- As part of the role, Jason has greatly enjoyed working with both customers and partners to solve problems and improve the day-to-day lives of technology professionals. The work is dynamic, and each customer has a different problem.
What was the day of the layoff like, and what was Jason’s immediate reaction?
- Jason was working at a company that had been previously acquired. There were changes happening, and Jason and his teammates knew they might be impacted by these changes but had no idea of when.
- Jason remembers getting a call to let him know his position was being eliminated. It was a very quick call and very formal.
- Once Jason’s phone rang that day, he knew exactly what was going to happen.
- “I was prepared as much as I could. It’s still a gut punch. Man, I can’t believe I didn’t make the cut. What’s wrong with me? Why was it me vs. somebody else?” – Jason Gass, on what goes through your mind in a layoff situation
  - There was still negative self-talk despite expecting that layoffs were going to happen.
- Jason tells us he was laid off a couple of times during the 2008 financial crisis.
  - “Looking back, that’s probably a good experience because I’ve gone through it once before. The one thing…I learned from that experience is these things happen, and a lot of good things happen afterwards. But it’s hard to have that lens when it first happens…. Everything emotionally hits you. All of those thoughts start going through your head….” – Jason Gass
  - People who get laid off are worried about paying the bills, supporting their family, and how long it will take to get their next job.
  - It’s easier to see the positives that came from a situation like this when you’re looking back on it later. Maybe someone took a different role, got to work for a different company that excited them, or even made more money.
  - Jason says we can get complacent and lose sight of our value in the marketplace. A layoff situation can force people out of their comfort zone.
- John reminds us that we’re not living in the age of having a job for life. Companies can be pretty ruthless when eliminating roles, and this is a fact.
  - Jason says back in 2008 he started thinking of himself as a line item on a spreadsheet. Though it can be hard for us to think this way, it’s business and the way the world works.
  - “It reminded me…I’m still a player in this game, and I still have control. It’s what I do with that control.” – Jason Gass
  - This line of thinking reminded Jason to understand his value in the marketplace and to keep his skill set current to provide options if a layoff happened or if he just wanted to make a change.
- Nick thinks we might not be mindful of the control we have or might not exercise it because we’re so focused on our daily work.
  - This is partially due to craving the structure of routines.
  - John says if we acknowledge a layoff as a possibility, it means we have to react to it before it happens (even if it doesn’t happen). But a lot of times we don’t want to have to think about it and choose the path of avoidance.
- If you get laid off, Jason says it’s ok to take time for yourself (a few days, maybe even a week to let the news sink in). In fact, you should. He did not do this and started making calls within 5-10 minutes of receiving the news.
  - “It caught up with me about 4 days later. That emotional drain finally came down on me, and it mentally drained me.” – Jason Gass
  - In giving advice to people who have been in this situation (unexpected job loss), Jason tells people it’s ok to take time to process. But after that, the job is to find a new job. This means keeping a normal, structured routine. If you get up and go to the gym every day, keep doing it.
  - At work we would be completing a specific task / set of role-specific tasks. The tasks you need to complete after being laid off include things like revising your resume, updating your LinkedIn profile, contacting people in our network, and finding in-person meetup groups to attend.
  - Jason emphasizes the importance of meeting people in person for professional networking and support. It’s a bit of a lost art after COVID. Listen closely to Jason’s description of one specific local meetup group supporting people looking for employment.

10:34 – Sources of Support and Maintaining Connections

Sometimes when people lose a job at a specific company, they struggle with their identity. Was this a challenge for Jason?
- Jason has held jobs he loved, but they were not his only identity. Many people consider their work or their job the entirety of their identity.
- “There’s things outside the workplace that I have so much more passion for.” – Jason Gass
- Knowing a layoff might happen helped Jason prepare and prevent too much tying of identity to the job. But he also stayed educated on the opportunities available in the job market.
- Being in Dallas / Fort Worth, Jason has read about many companies moving their headquarters to this area. But with many others in the market for jobs right now, there is a lot of competition.
Was there a specific process Jason went through to combat the emotional drain of the layoff event we discussed earlier?
- Jason says there were good days and bad days.
- Some days were filled with many interviews. Others were filled with rejection and news that a specific interview process would not continue.
- Some of the things that really helped Jason through this process were…
  - Talking to his wife
  - Keeping in touch with colleagues who had been laid off as well as those who remained at the company
  - One of Jason’s colleagues created a chat group with displaced people across the country who were going through the same thing, and it was great to be connected with others who were going through the same thing.
  - An account rep Jason worked with had been laid off a number of months prior to Jason but had gotten back on his feet. The account rep told Jason to call him any time, even if it was to vent and let out some of his emotions and frustrations.
  - “I didn’t realize how important that was when I gave it to him until I needed that same platform.” – Jason Gass, on getting support from a co-worker he had previously supported after a layoff event
- John highlights the importance of having different people who can support us through these difficult situations. It’s not just family or a specific peer. It’s many others who can support us.
  - Jason highlights the group chat as something that worked extremely well.
  - If Jason saw a job listing that might help a member of the group, he would share it. This included roles that were not suited for him as well as roles that listed openings in multiple locations. Jason would even offer to introduce members of the group to people he met as part of the interview process where applicable.
  - “One of the nice things is I met a lot of great people. I didn’t get chosen. I might not have been the final candidate through the process, but I made a lot of great connections through the whole process. So even if I didn’t get chosen, I still made connections where I could say, ‘hey, I know someone over here. Do you mind talking to them?’” – Jason Gass
Did Jason ask people he met through interviews to stay in touch as a way to maintain connections over time?
- Many of the people Jason interviewed with would connect with him on LinkedIn. In cases where he was not selected for a role, people encouraged Jason to reach out to them in the future.
- Jason made a point of letting people know he appreciated them taking the time to interview him and would often send LinkedIn messages of thanks.
- Jason tells us that solution engineering / sales engineering is a big field, but there aren’t a lot of players.
- “I relate it to people like trading baseball cards. You start seeing the same people. They just rotate from one company to another…. It didn’t work out this time around. That’s understandable. We don’t know where we’re going to be three, four, five years down the road.” – Jason Gass
- John tells us hiring managers are always looking to build a bench of talent from which they can pull at a later time. Likely any candidate who made it to the final round of interviews could do the job well and is someone a hiring manager would want to keep in touch with for possible future openings.
- Jason tells the story of when he first got into sales engineering. He interviewed with a company and did not get the job at the time. But he stayed in contact with the hiring manager on LinkedIn.
  - The hiring manager would see Jason posting content on LinkedIn now and then.
  - Roughly 3 years later, the same hiring manager had an opening on his team. Jason reached out about the role, and the hiring manager both remembered Jason and said he would love to have Jason interview for the opening.

16:52 – Emotional Balance and Job Opportunities as a Sales Pipeline

John brings up the necessity of emotional balance during a job search. The job search process is like sales processing or maintaining a sales pipeline. There seems to be more at stake in selecting your next career move versus making a sale. How did Jason handle the emotional regulation?
- Jason thought about applying for and looking for jobs just like a sales pipeline. Looking back, he calls it a marathon.
- Until you get an offer letter that you will accept, you keep focused on pursuing opportunities in your pipeline and generating new opportunities. This means continuing with interview processes, networking, and submitting applications.
- Jason was laid off at the beginning of November. He interviewed hard for 4 months and says it was even more difficult than working a normal job.
- “And I think the hardest part about it is that you always have to be on. You always have to be ready to take a call from a recruiter or a hiring manager…. I remember I interviewed so much in 1 week I talked so much I lost my voice…because you’re always on…. It’s hard. We’re not used to talking that long…. We’re not going out there and talking for 4, 6 hours a day like a professional speaker.” – Jason Gass
- At this time of year, some companies were looking to fill roles quickly. Jason recounts being out Christmas shopping and being asked if he could take a call about a job. Other times he had to take 4 calls in a row with only a short break during the entire period.
- Nick mentions people like Brendon Burchard work out heavily to be able to speak for 9 hours per day.
- Jason says he was mentally exhausted after so much interviewing, but it was good from the standpoint of having so much activity.
- “I knew something was going to happen. I knew offer was going to come. I just had to stay diligent.” – Jason Gass
Was there a specific system Jason used to track all of the applications and interviews and follow ups he needed to do?
- Jason kept track of where he applied, who he spoke with, and action items.
- He would keep track of salary information for the roles as well. Many of the jobs had a large salary range, and it was important to see where he would be in that range.
- Jason shares the story of a friend who applied for nearly 1000 jobs last year. This friend had multiple resumes and was tracking which resume got the most responses and focused time on refining it even more.
- Many job applicants are taking a shotgun approach to applying for jobs, and it is causing some problems.
  - A single job posting might get 500 applicants, but how are candidates filtered on the back end?
  - A friend told Jason the number of applicants for a job on LinkedIn is really how many people clicked the link to apply. But not everyone who clicks the link fills out the application.
  - For a position with 500 applicants, someone would remove people not in the right geographic area. That might get it down to 300. If you trim down the candidates who don’t have the right skillset, that might narrow the list to 100 people to choose from for interviews.
  - “It’s caveats on both sides because you might be a great candidate for the role. You might read that description and say, ‘hey, I can do everything in that job. But how do I get my resume noticed if there’s so many other people?’ …There’s a lot of cloudiness in the water. So how do you make yourself stand out?” – Jason Gass

22:57 – Helpful Tools in the Job Search Process

John agrees with the recommendation against playing a numbers game. He advocates qualifying the positions you’re looking for and doing a custom resume for each position. The key words and skills will be different for each job to which you apply.
- Job descriptions may even have variations of the same term / terms. He gives the example of MEDDIC and MEDDPICC as qualification tools for selling.
- The time and effort for a custom resume are significant.
- Jason was given advice to use AI to help with his resume. There are many tools out there.
- “I feel like we’re having AI wars. We have AIs writing resumes, and then we have AI analyzing the resumes before a single person even looks at it.” – Jason Gass
- Jason mentions LinkedIn’s Premium Career subscription as a helpful tool. There are AI tools built into it.
  - Jason liked the fact that he could take his resume, compare it to a job description, and the tool would make suggested enhancements to the resume to fit the specific job description.
  - Jason was able to spot patterns in the key words that would come up again and again, and using the tool helped him tailor a resume to these specific systems for job applications.
  - “And, of course, AI is not the last step. After AI, you still need to go through and groom it. Is this accurate? Is this true? Does it sound like me? You still have to go and do the finishing touches.” – Jason Gass
  - With the help of the tool, Jason was able to get his LinkedIn profile up to date, write some cover letters, and write some messages to contact some hiring messages through InMail. It helped make Jason’s writing better on all of these fronts.
- “I finally got comfortable enough just reaching out to people that I may not know.” – Jason Gass
- Jason made a list of the top companies he wanted to target in his job search. If he knew someone working at a specific target company, he would reach out to that person.
  - Reaching out to people you know at companies can help you get connected with a recruiter or hiring manager and get a resume in front of them.
- In the case of companies where Jason didn’t have any professional connections, he would find the local sales engineering manager and reach out to that person. He calls this “planting seeds.”
  - Jason would express interest in the company and ask these managers if they know of any openings coming available in the next few months. For context, Jason was reaching out during the 4th quarter of a lot of companies, and some tend to open new roles in their 1st quarter of the following fiscal year.
  - John emphasizes that hiring managers like to have a bench of talent they can put into their pipeline when a job requisition opens. There is nothing wrong with contacting a hiring manager, stating that you understand there are no current openings, and asking for an informational interview. This allows the manager to get to know you a little bit and might help put you on that bench of talent for future consideration.

27:59 – The Network Effect

Jason says he never turned on the Open to Work indicator on LinkedIn.
- “For the first few months, I just targeted my network or LinkedIn, and in the end, that’s what got me 95% of my interviews…working my network, talking to people, connecting with people through several different means and avenues.” – Jason Gass
- Jason got the role he has now as a result of leaning on his professional network.
Jason tells us when he was first laid off, he started calling people in his network inside the company first to look for open roles.
- Even though his role was eliminated, Jason understood other roles within the company could still be a good fit.
Jason also mentions calling a long-time friend and someone who was his sales engineer from years ago.
- This friend had moved on to another company over time. Once Jason relayed the story of what happened, his friend found out who the hiring manager was in Jason’s area.
- “He didn’t know the hiring manager. But he found who it was, made an e-mail introduction, and I found that the company was a sponsor at a local tech event coming up in 2 weeks.” – Jason Gass, on leveraging help from a friend
- Jason asked the hiring manager if he planned to be at the local tech event, and as it turns out, the manager would be there. After meeting the manager in person at this event, Jason was asked to share his resume with the hiring manager.
  - Though the hiring manager shared Jason’s resume with others he knew, there were no openings at the time. But Jason’s friend reached out to him months later about something different.
  - “Nothing came out of it then. We’re talking November time frame…. That seed that I planted in November ended up sprouting in February and then in the end landed me a position.” – Jason Gass
How did Jason know who to call first when the layoff happened? Did he have a mental list in mind already?
- The first person Jason called was a manager of his from a previous job who had remained a mentor for many years.
- They had talked fairly recently, and Jason had been wondering if the role he was in really was the right one. Jason wanted to understand what else might be available and wanted to reach back out to the former manager to see if he knew of any openings.
- “I talked to probably a dozen people the first day. I got the call at like 9 o’clock. I was on the phone until 5 o’clock that afternoon talking to a variety of different people.” – Jason Gass
- Jason talked to other colleagues inside the company to see if they were safe from the layoffs or knew about internal openings in other departments. People with longevity at a company often know about job openings quickly.
- “I think the first good step is saying…if I don’t have to go out there in the wild, wild west and look for a whole new job…if I’m happy with the company…can I just migrate into another role? Could I cover a different territory? Instead of being pre-sales, maybe I could go to post-sales. Or could I get into consulting or something of that nature?” – Jason Gass
- Nick suggests if you think layoffs will happen at your company, consider making that top 5 or top 10 list of who you would call to store where it can be retrieved if you find yourself in the same situation as Jason.
- “I think about it, and a lot of times people reach out only when they want something. How long did they maintain the relationship? I’ve learned to try to keep some ongoing relationship with my network.” – Jason Gass
- People will post about work anniversaries or achieving certifications. Consider sending them a message to ask how they are doing. Suggest you catch up with them. Jason says it doesn’t have to be as frequent as once per month and could even be once per year.
- Jason mentions the importance of publishing content and has posted about his involvement in Toasmasters over time. He tells us this would come up in conversations when he was looking for work.
  - “People I hadn’t seen in years. ‘Hey, I know we haven’t talked in a while, but I’ve followed you on LinkedIn and saw that you’re in Toastmasters…. I’ve always thought about doing that. Can you tell me more about it?’ That rapport that we may have had years ago just picked right up…. I find it really important to maintain some form of relationships with…my network so that when I did reach out and say, ‘hey, I’m looking for a job’ it wasn’t about what can you do for me.” – Jason Gass
- Jason had been maintaining relationships with people in his network independent of whether the layoff was going to happen. He reminds us that the tech space is small but ever changing.

Mentioned in the Outro

Any idea who you would call if this happened to you?
- It’s good to have a list of people in mind, and it’s good to start connecting with people in your network more often than you are now. Amidst our busy lives, we need to make time to connect with others both inside and outside our company.
In Episode 317 – Own Your Job Search: Be the Captain, Find a Harbor Pilot, we talked about the concept of a harbor pilot who can help you navigate the hiring process at a company where you would like to work. Jason leveraged his professional network to do this. Plant those seeds now!
Are you attending in-person meetup groups?
- If not, Nick suggests going to any meetup group that fits an interest you have, even if it falls outside of technology. You would be surprised at how many people you meet work in tech but look to other interests as well.
Jason mentioned being part of a chat group of other people who also experienced unexpected job loss. Would you be willing to lend a helping hand to others like he has?
Remember to check out following free resources:
- Our Layoff Resources Page – a list of the most impactful conversations we’ve had on the show focused on the topic of layoffs.
- The Career Uncertainty Action Guide with the 5 pillars of career resilience and AI prompts to help you work through overwhelm, financial planning, and a layoff scenario
Do you know someone who has a layoff story that needs to be told to encourage others in the community? Send us an e-mail to make guest suggestions!

Contact the Hosts

The hosts of Nerd Journey are John White and Nick Korte.
- E-mail: [email protected]
- DM us on Twitter/X @NerdJourney
- Connect with John on LinkedIn or DM him on Twitter/X @vJourneyman
- Connect with Nick on LinkedIn or DM him on Twitter/X @NetworkNerd_
- Leave a Comment on Your Favorite Episode on YoutTube
If you’ve been impacted by a layoff or need advice, check out our Layoff Resources Page.
If uncertainty is getting to you, check out or Career Uncertainty Action Guide with a checklist of actions to take control during uncertain periods and AI prompts to help you think through topics like navigating a recent layoff, financial planning, or managing your mindset and being overwhelmed.

402 episodes

#Careers #Business #Tech #Self-Improvement #JOHN WHITE #John White And Nick Korte #Podcasting Education

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Topics – Jason Gass Returns, When a Phone Call Changes Everything, Sources of Support and Maintaining Connections, Emotional Balance and Job Opportunities as a Sales Pipeline, Helpful Tools in the Job Search Process, The Network Effect

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Planting Seeds: Networking and Maneuvering Unexpected Job Loss with Jason Gass (1/2)

Topics – Jason Gass Returns, When a Phone Call Changes Everything, Sources of Support and Maintaining Connections, Emotional Balance and Job Opportunities as a Sales Pipeline, Helpful Tools in the Job Search Process, The Network Effect

2:20 – Jason Gass Returns

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22:57 – Helpful Tools in the Job Search Process

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