📌 Our guest, Bobby Vickers joins the conversation at 1:37:27

We’re back after a long stretch. The last episode came out in March, and since then it’s been tough not only to stay consistent but to bring in guests who don’t just echo our own worldview. Episode 5 was recorded on April 2nd, the day after Trump’s so-called “Liberation Day.” What began as a throwaway recording became something more when our good friend Bobby Vickers jumped in from Texas.

This conversation runs long and ranges wide—from tariffs and trade wars, to morality and leadership, to the question of whether today’s turbulence is just politics-as-usual or a genuine break with history.

At its heart, this episode is about trying to find real dialogue across divides—whether that’s confronting visceral dislike for Trump, Bobby’s more measured contrarian stance, or wrestling with what “normal” even means anymore.