In this week’s episode of M.E.S.H., host Dr. Pamela Brewer welcomes Carrie Ann Cleveland, Director of Cleveland Family Counseling and a licensed marriage and family therapist, to dive deep into understanding gaslighting, narcissistic abuse, and their impacts on mental and emotional health. Carrie Ann decodes the difference between everyday disagreements and manipulative tactics, discusses the unpredictable dynamics inside relationships with narcissists, and provides listeners with practical advice and resources for navigating — and surviving — toxic interactions.

Topics Covered:

• The definition and trauma of gaslighting
• What constitutes narcissistic abuse
• Narcissism in various environments (work, family, church, nonprofits)
• Key behaviors and mindset of narcissists
• Gaslighting as part of narcissistic abuse — including the concept of “love bombing”
• Recognizing the arc of gaslighting in relationships
• Consequences: financial, social, medical risks of ongoing gaslighting
• Darvo (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender) — manipulation tactic breakdown
• Gray rock and yellow rock methods for interacting with narcissists
• Navigating healthy boundaries vs. staying in unhealthy relationships
• Resources for support and further learning

Key Takeaways:

• Gaslighting is a powerful and traumatizing tactic that undermines a person’s sense of reality.
• Narcissistic abuse is rooted in power and control, showing up in many types of relationships and environments.
• Narcissists rarely seek help for themselves. They don’t believe they need to. Often, it’s those around them who seek support and therapy.
• Gaslighting and manipulation are not always overt or hostile — sometimes they manifest as excessive affection or “love bombing.”
• Maintaining emotional boundaries and using neutral, non-reactive communication strategies can protect your mental health.
• Recognizing manipulation tactics (like DARVO, projection) is the first step towards empowerment.
• There are expert guides, organizations, and tools available for those needing guidance.

Six Best Quotes:

1. “Gaslighting is when somebody is trying to make you believe, think, or feel in a way that is not based on your reality.”
2. “Narcissistic personality disorder is the only mental health diagnosis where the person with the disorder remains untreated and everybody around him goes to therapy.”
3. “Narcissism is insidious. It is extremely traumatic having to deal with a narcissistic person.”
4. “Gaslighting doesn’t always look and feel bad. Certainly not in the beginning. If it did, we would never go past the first date.”
5. “When you play with a cat with a laser pointer... that’s what the narcissist does.”
6. “You have to know your truth. You have to name the tactic when you’re seeing it.”

Connect with the Guest:

• Website: clevelandfamilycounseling.com
• Email: [email protected]
• Name spelling: Carrie Ann — C A R R I E A N N
• Instagram, Twitter, or other social handles — not provided in transcript (please see website for more details).

Resources List:

• Carrie Ann’s Practice: clevelandfamilycounseling.com
• Dr. Ramani Durvasula (Expert on Narcissism):
  • YouTube Channel
  • TED Talks
  • Books: (Search for Dr. Ramani’s books on narcissism)
• One Mom’s Battle (Tina Swithin):
  • Website
• Amy Says (AI communication assistant for high conflict situations):
  • amieesays.com (per transcript spelling: a i m e e s a y s)
• Gray Rock/Yellow Rock Method:
  • Gray Rock Method — Information
  • One Mom’s Battle resources
• Therapy Finder:
  • Psychology Today — Find a Therapist
• Named Manipulation Tactics: DARVO, projection, weaponized incompetence

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#TraumaRecovery
#HealthyRelationships
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