In their latest podcast Niall and Roy invite Penny Dash, the new chair of NHS England, to join them In the Loop. Within weeks of her appointment the secretary of state announced that NHS England was for the chop and that he would subject the NHS to a major reorganisation. But Penny is unphased and says the current system is riddled with complexity and duplication and could not have survived, although she admits with the Department running everything we could well be back to the old challenges of too much political involvement. She also makes clear there is much to do to make the Integrated Care Boards effective commissioners. Making the NHS more efficient is a clear priority – workforce numbers have gone up, but activity has not, and now she says we have more operating theatre staff than any other country in the world. So, with only limited extra funding, how will the new NHS leadership achieve the promised transformation – according to Penny, better allocation of resources, better operational management, increased productivity, and a real embrace of technology which she describes as ‘a bit of a magic wand’. Listen now!