Joey speaks with Bret Stephens and Chloe Valdary. We discuss DEI, prejudice on the right and left, MAGA, wokeness, social media, polarization, communicating across the aisle, intentions and misunderstandings, graciousness, human uniqueness, understanding one’s political opponents, the media and Trumpism, the crisis of meaning and connection, balancing moral clarity with compassion, antisemitism, pro-Hamas protesters, perceptions of Israel, Daryl Davis, and other topics. Bret can be found on his NYT page. Chloe can be found on Instagram @cvaldary, Substack at Chloé Valdary, and her website.

Bret is an Opinion columnist at the New York Times and Editor-in-chief of Sapir. He was previously at The Wall Street Journal, The Jerusalem Post, and Commentary. He earned a BA in political philosophy from the University of Chicago and an MA in comparative politics from the London School of Economics. He has won numerous awards, including a 2013 Pulitzer Prize.

Chloe is a writer, entrepreneur, and diversity & inclusion educator. She runs the DEI program Theory of Enchantment and her app, Dojo. She graduated magna cum laude from the University of New Orleans in 2015 with a BA in International Studies. She has also contributed to The New York Times and The Atlantic.