Attachment, Avoidance and the Path to Healing with Dr. Robert Muller

How We Can Heal

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Season 5 of the How We Can Heal Podcast is sponsored by SimplePractice.

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This episode is also sponsored by the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation (ISSTD).

The International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation is an international, non-profit, professional association organized to develop and promote comprehensive, clinically effective and empirically based resources and responses to trauma and dissociation and to address its relevance to other theoretical constructs.

Visit https://cfas.isst-d.org/ to access educational offerings for both professionals and non-professionals

To learn more and become a member, visit: https://www.isst-d.org/

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Trauma leaves invisible wounds that shape our relationships, survival strategies, and capacity for connection. In this profound conversation with Dr. Robert Mueller, we journey through the complex landscape of trauma therapy, examining both the protective role of avoidance and the human yearning to be truly seen and understood.
Dr. Muller shares his deeply personal connection to trauma work as a child of Holocaust survivors, revealing how his parents' experiences during childhood shaped not only their parenting but also his professional path. With remarkable candor, he articulates how his own anxieties around control and uncertainty continue to influence his clinical work, offering a refreshing glimpse into the very human experience of being a trauma therapist.
At the heart of our discussion lies a compassionate exploration of avoidance in trauma recovery. Dr. Muller introduces the concept of "trauma fragments" – those subtle disclosures that slip through otherwise protective defenses, signaling a readiness to process painful experiences. He offers practical insights for therapists navigating the delicate balance between honoring defenses and gently challenging them, emphasizing curiosity over confrontation as the pathway forward.
Perhaps most powerfully, Dr. Muller challenges the cultural pressure many trauma survivors face to forgive their perpetrators. He reframes forgiveness not as a virtuous endpoint but as a fluid process that may ebb and flow throughout one's healing journey. This perspective liberates survivors from the burden of toxic positivity, honoring the complexity of their experiences without demanding premature resolution.
Whether you're a therapist seeking to deepen your trauma-informed practice or someone on your own healing journey, this conversation offers a roadmap grounded in compassion, patience, and profound respect for the wisdom of our protective responses. As Dr. Muller reminds us, healing comes not from bypassing difficult emotions but from creating contexts where they can be safely felt, understood, and integrated into our life stories.

Chapters

1. Introduction to Dr. Robert Mueller (00:00:00)

2. Holocaust Trauma and Family History (00:06:33)

3. Understanding Avoidance in Trauma Therapy (00:12:10)

4. Working with Trauma Fragments (00:19:07)

5. Navigating Client Defenses with Curiosity (00:29:14)

6. Humor as Defense and Therapeutic Timing (00:38:30)

7. The Complexity of Forgiveness (00:52:37)

8. Finding Hope in Impermanence (01:02:30)

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