Chronic absenteeism still hovers around 25% nationwide—and one root cause keeps surfacing: student disengagement.

In this episode, we sit down with Alfie Kohn, author of Punished by Rewards, to unpack a hard truth many of us weren’t trained to question:

👉 Rewards, grades, praise, and “positive reinforcement” don’t build motivation—they often undermine it.

Alfie reminds us:

• Motivation isn’t one thing. The kind matters more than the amount.

• Intrinsic motivation (learning for meaning, curiosity, purpose) is more powerful than extrinsic carrots and sticks.

• The more we reward learning, the more we unintentionally teach students that learning isn’t worth doing on its own.

• What’s framed as “encouragement” is often control in disguise—and kids (and adults) feel it.

So what’s the shift?
🔄 From doing things to students → working with students
🔄 From praise and compliance → choice, voice, agency, and dialogue
🔄 From grades and behavior charts → feedback, reflection, and authentic assessment

This conversation isn’t about blaming teachers—it’s about questioning systems we inherited and reimagining classrooms (and workplaces) where engagement is designed, not bribed.

Alfie Kohn Website

Kohn's Zone Podcast

Punished by Rewards

Music by Aylex