In this episode, together with James and Dani we dive deep into the revolutionary concept of "liquefaction" and its profound implications for Web3 identity, governance, and ownership. We explore how this groundbreaking research challenges fundamental assumptions about blockchain addresses, private keys, and digital identity, while examining the emergence of Dark DAOs as anonymous voting cartels that could reshape decentralized governance forever.
James Austgen is a PhD student at Cornell Tech and is advised by Professor Ari Juels. His research interests include blockchains, privacy, next-generation wallets, and TEEs.
Dani Vilardell is a second year PhD student at Cornell Tech and is advised by Professor Ari Juels. With a background in mathematics and electrical engineering, his interests include Zero Knowledge Proofs, Blockchains and Privacy.
James and Dani are researchers working on liquefaction, which enables the transfer of assets or privileges that are meant to be nontransferable/illiquid. Their work exposes critical vulnerabilities in current Web3 systems, from locked token mechanisms to NFT exclusivity, while also revealing new possibilities for privacy-preserving applications and cross-chain interoperability.
In this episode, James and Dani share invaluable insights from their cutting-edge research on liquefaction, shedding light on vote buying, identity theft risks, and the transformative potential of programmable private key sharing. Learn about complete knowledge proofs, trusted execution environments, the ethics of identity rental, and the future of governance in a post-liquefaction world. Don't miss this comprehensive discussion that bridges cryptography, governance theory, and the evolving landscape of digital ownership.
Some of the work we mention in the episode:
- Austgen, J., Fàbrega, A., Allen, S., Babel, K., Kelkar, M., & Juels, A. (2023, November 1). DAO decentralization: Voting-bloc entropy, bribery, and dark DAOs (v1.0) [Preprint]. arXiv. https://arxiv.org/pdf/2311.03530
- Austgen, J., Fàbrega, A., Kelkar, M., Vilardell, D., Allen, S., Babel, K., Yu, J., & Juels, A. (2024). *Liquefaction: Privately Liquefying Blockchain Assets*. Cornell Tech. Available via: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2412.02634
- Take my Ape experiment : https://takemyape.com/

Chapter Timestamps
00:00 - Intro & Teaser
02:55 - Welcome and Setup: Web3 Fragility & Liquefaction
04:46 - How Liquefaction Enhances Private Coordination
06:26 - Redefining Ownership Assumptions in Web3
08:00 - Lock Tokens & Undermining Incentives
09:59 - Dark DAOs and Vote Selling Risks
12:10 - State of Decentralization in DAOs
13:55 - Dark DAOs as Decentralized Cartels
15:17 - Identity Theft via Liquefaction
16:56 - "Take My Ape" Experiment Explained
19:39 - Renting Reputations & Board Ape Access
22:00 - Complete Knowledge as a Defensive Mechanism
24:55 - Technical Breakdown: Why TEE > MPC
27:07 - Ethical Questions of Open Sourcing Dark DAOs
28:10 - Constructive Use Cases: Treasury, Auctions, Bridges
30:15 - Overlay Smart Contracts and Interoperability
32:00 - Reputation Rental Marketplaces
34:12 - Per-Asset Policies & Selective Liquefaction
36:00 - Asset Sharing & Community Coordination
37:45 - Rethinking Governance Models
39:10 - Governance Marketplaces & Vote Monetization
41:00 - AI Delegates in DAOs: Risks and Coordination
43:00 - Ethics of Renting Identity & Credential Markets
45:00 - Final Thoughts: Future of Governance
46:50 - Quiz: One-word Governance Futures
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