In this episode of Governance Futures, hosts Jamilya and Eugene speak with Jen, DAO Comms Lead at Lido, about the launch of Lido’s dual governance model.

Jen shares her journey into governance, her perspective on decentralization, and how Lido is addressing value alignment between token holders and stETH users.

The conversation explores how dual governance gives stETH holders veto power, the role of delegate incentives, and the challenges of combining technical complexity with inclusive participation.

Jen also reflects on Vitalik’s call to “burn down” legitimacy, why governance should evolve instead, and how clarity matters more than total transparency.

The episode closes with a rapid-fire quiz, where Jen sums up the future of governance in one word: adaptability.

Some of the materials we mention in the episode:
Dual Governance at Lido: https://x.com/TariQuin/status/1941154197870915950
Vitalik recently said:
https://youtu.be/pPZZ25qSprY?feature=shared&t=1590

Timestamps:
00:00 – Cold Start

00:54 – Introduction and reflections on Lido governance

04:46 – Jen’s path into governance and joining Lido DAO

07:08 – Defining decentralization and Lido’s approach

10:11 – Times Square billboard and dual governance announcement

12:47 – Lido’s governance process before dual governance

14:34 – Delegate incentive program and oversight committee

18:18 – Governance as work: paying for delegate contributions

19:30 – Dual governance explained: stETH holders’ right to exit

23:27 – Safeguards, vetoes, and community alignment

25:08 – LDO vs. stETH holders: reactions to dual governance

29:12 – Governance expertise, DAO challenges, and delegate roles

31:53 – Why governance should serve the product, not dominate it

35:59 – Technical complexity and the need for education

40:24 – Committees, mandates, and decentralization trade-offs

43:39 – Balancing operations, transparency, and security

48:34 – The role of AI in governance clarity and summaries

52:12 – Legitimacy, Vitalik’s critique, and evolving governance

58:03 – Tokens, utility, and the uniqueness of DAOs

59:57 – Research priorities: defining the scope of DAO governance

01:05:46 – One-word quiz: decentralization, governance, adaptability