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Ranking JS Bios/First Vision Controversy (John Turner 2 of 6)

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Manage episode 489681993 series 2531481
Content provided by Rick B. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Rick B or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://podcastplayer.com/legal.
Fawn Brodie, Richard Bushman, and Dan Vogel have the 3 most popular biographies on Joseph Smith prior to John Turner's latest. Which is best? John will answer that and we'll discuss the First Vision anachronisms. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/BOTVrDQJGbc Don’t miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Landscape of Joseph Smith Biographies John Turner is author of "Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet. Dr. Turner's book enters a field rich with extensive scholarship. He notes that the main biographies over the years include Fawn Brodie's "No Man Knows My History," Richard Bushman's "Rough Stone Rolling," and works by Dan Vogel,[1] Richard Van Wagoner,[2] and Martha Bradley.[3] Fawn Brodie's "No Man Knows My History": Published in 1945, Brodie's work is recognized for her "fantastic writing"and remarkable achievement given her limited access to sources available today. While now "out of date,"it was incredibly popular, with Richard Bushman himself acknowledging its enduring "perch" as a favorite among readers, perhaps due to Brodie's skills as an English major and great writer. She was technically Mormon but very critical of Joseph Smith. Richard Bushman's "Rough Stone Rolling": Dr. Turner expresses "enormous admiration"for Richard Bushman as a person and scholar. Bushman's biography "expertly contextualizes Joseph's life in the culture of the early 19th century United States"and benefits from tremendous access to sources, though notably, it predates the availability of the Joseph Smith Papers. Over the last two decades, "Rough Stone Rolling" has become the "go-to biography for any scholar or seriously interested party in Joseph Smith.” Bushman's work was seen as a more "faithful perspective" in contrast to Brodie's critical stance. Dan Vogel's Contributions: Dr. Turner highlights Dan Vogel as a "really diligent researcher"whose "Early Mormon Documents collection"[4] was an "essential resource for historians"before the Joseph Smith Papers. Vogel's works, including "Joseph Smith, The Making of a Prophet" and "Charisma Under Pressure," mark him as "one of the more significant historians of Mormonism" in this generation. While his books may not have achieved the wide readership of Brodie's or Bushman's, their scholarly value is undeniable. Dr. Turner clarifies that he didn't write his biography because existing ones were "inadequate" or "stink.” Instead, he aimed to write a "different one" that might be "better or does justice to different parts of Joseph's personality.” His approach involved immersing himself in the sources, particularly the Joseph Smith Papers volumes and website, and reading the latest scholarship, rather than directly positioning his work against others. He trusted there would be "room for my perspective from my position.” Unpacking Joseph Smith's Early Life When discussing Joseph Smith's early life, Dr. Turner notes a significant challenge: "we know very little" about the period before 1829. Scarcity of Sources: Most of what is known comes from a small number of sources, or at least only a few that detail events. Lucy Mack Smith's Biography: While a "great source,"Lucy Mack Smith's dictated biography from 1844 (decades after many events) is often the "only source we have to go on,"which presents a "little troublesome" limitation. Joseph Smith's Own Accounts: Joseph himself did not discuss his childhood in any great depth in his histories, only occasionally alluding to it in sermons. Conflicting Recollections: Early accounts of Joseph from Palmyra were often "filed up and divergent," coming from individuals who "were not too impressed with Joseph Smith and his family.” No Prefigured Greatness: Dr. Turner emphasizes that "there was nothing that pr...
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391 episodes

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Manage episode 489681993 series 2531481
Content provided by Rick B. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Rick B or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://podcastplayer.com/legal.
Fawn Brodie, Richard Bushman, and Dan Vogel have the 3 most popular biographies on Joseph Smith prior to John Turner's latest. Which is best? John will answer that and we'll discuss the First Vision anachronisms. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/BOTVrDQJGbc Don’t miss our other conversations with John: https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-turner/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Landscape of Joseph Smith Biographies John Turner is author of "Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet. Dr. Turner's book enters a field rich with extensive scholarship. He notes that the main biographies over the years include Fawn Brodie's "No Man Knows My History," Richard Bushman's "Rough Stone Rolling," and works by Dan Vogel,[1] Richard Van Wagoner,[2] and Martha Bradley.[3] Fawn Brodie's "No Man Knows My History": Published in 1945, Brodie's work is recognized for her "fantastic writing"and remarkable achievement given her limited access to sources available today. While now "out of date,"it was incredibly popular, with Richard Bushman himself acknowledging its enduring "perch" as a favorite among readers, perhaps due to Brodie's skills as an English major and great writer. She was technically Mormon but very critical of Joseph Smith. Richard Bushman's "Rough Stone Rolling": Dr. Turner expresses "enormous admiration"for Richard Bushman as a person and scholar. Bushman's biography "expertly contextualizes Joseph's life in the culture of the early 19th century United States"and benefits from tremendous access to sources, though notably, it predates the availability of the Joseph Smith Papers. Over the last two decades, "Rough Stone Rolling" has become the "go-to biography for any scholar or seriously interested party in Joseph Smith.” Bushman's work was seen as a more "faithful perspective" in contrast to Brodie's critical stance. Dan Vogel's Contributions: Dr. Turner highlights Dan Vogel as a "really diligent researcher"whose "Early Mormon Documents collection"[4] was an "essential resource for historians"before the Joseph Smith Papers. Vogel's works, including "Joseph Smith, The Making of a Prophet" and "Charisma Under Pressure," mark him as "one of the more significant historians of Mormonism" in this generation. While his books may not have achieved the wide readership of Brodie's or Bushman's, their scholarly value is undeniable. Dr. Turner clarifies that he didn't write his biography because existing ones were "inadequate" or "stink.” Instead, he aimed to write a "different one" that might be "better or does justice to different parts of Joseph's personality.” His approach involved immersing himself in the sources, particularly the Joseph Smith Papers volumes and website, and reading the latest scholarship, rather than directly positioning his work against others. He trusted there would be "room for my perspective from my position.” Unpacking Joseph Smith's Early Life When discussing Joseph Smith's early life, Dr. Turner notes a significant challenge: "we know very little" about the period before 1829. Scarcity of Sources: Most of what is known comes from a small number of sources, or at least only a few that detail events. Lucy Mack Smith's Biography: While a "great source,"Lucy Mack Smith's dictated biography from 1844 (decades after many events) is often the "only source we have to go on,"which presents a "little troublesome" limitation. Joseph Smith's Own Accounts: Joseph himself did not discuss his childhood in any great depth in his histories, only occasionally alluding to it in sermons. Conflicting Recollections: Early accounts of Joseph from Palmyra were often "filed up and divergent," coming from individuals who "were not too impressed with Joseph Smith and his family.” No Prefigured Greatness: Dr. Turner emphasizes that "there was nothing that pr...
  continue reading

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