In this episode of Experiment Nation, host Jason sits down with Namata Agarwal, a seasoned product designer with over 17 years of experience building digital products, websites, and apps.Together, they explore:- Ethical testing: how to balance user needs with business goals.- Leaks vs. puddles framework: a practical way to identify urgent vs. non-urgent product problems.- The role of design in CRO and experimentation.- Frameworks, guardrails, and collaboration strategies for building an experimentation culture.Whether you’re a CRO specialist, product manager, or experimentation nerd, this episode is packed with actionable insights you can bring to your own team.👉 Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe to stay updated on the latest in experimentation and growth!📖 Check out Prove It or Lose It: The (Mostly) No-Nonsense Guide to Surviving Experimentation Program Drama .⏱️ Chapters with Timestamps0:00 – Why design must be involved early0:22 – Welcome & intro to Jason0:43 – Guest intro: Namata Agarwal0:55 – Topics: Ethical testing & Leaks vs. Puddles1:18 – What is ethical testing?2:22 – Balancing business needs vs. user needs2:54 – Handling stakeholder pushback4:01 – Misaligned metrics and real solutions5:17 – The Leaks vs. Puddles analogy explained6:32 – Why better hypothesis building matters7:48 – Using Airtable & frameworks for test prioritization8:40 – Why experimentation must be collaborative9:24 – Reframing experiments around the user journey10:00 – Unpredictable user journeys & design challenges11:12 – Involving guest collaborators in experimentation11:50 – Mapping user journeys with Miro & qualitative research12:50 – Jobs To Be Done & other qualitative frameworks14:44 – Turning qualitative insights into hypotheses15:32 – How product design elevates CRO strategies16:11 – The importance of forms in experimentation17:36 – Why design should be included from day one18:20 – Design is not just visuals—it’s about impact19:11 – Governance, responsibility, and inclusivity in testing19:46 – Leak vs. Puddle framework deep dive22:58 – Running collaborative workshops25:45 – The “Stinky Fish” workshop format27:21 – Micro vs. macro frameworks for problem-solving28:05 – Balancing bold ideas vs. safe bets29:19 – Planning tests like an investment portfolio30:13 – Testing across 13 sites at scale30:26 – What Namata would A/B test in daily life31:57 – Art, painting, and creative balance32:42 – Martial arts & keeping calm32:56 – Wrap up & final thoughts33:14 – How to connect with Namata