When you hear the words Alzheimer's disease, what do you think of? The truth is, the picture most of us have of the disease is incomplete. Alzheimer's disease doesn't start when someone starts to lose their memory. It actually starts years – sometimes decades – earlier. The Rethinking Alzheimer's Disease Podcast is an engaging, narrative-style podcast miniseries for those curious or motivated to learn about Alzheimer’s disease. Perhaps you have a family member with Alzheimer’s disease, or ca ...
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Dr. Anne Wagner: Can MDMA Fix a Broken Marriage?
Manage episode 490307594 series 3615295
Content provided by Divergent States. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Divergent States or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://podcastplayer.com/legal.
In this episode, 3L1T3 sits down with Dr. Anne Wagner, clinical psychologist and founder of Remedy, whose research pushes MDMA therapy beyond the individual — into the space between two people. We explore what happens when couples facing PTSD enter treatment together, why trauma rarely belongs to just one partner, and whether psychedelic medicine can transform relational patterns where traditional therapy fails.
We also examine the ethical and emotional risks of dyadic MDMA therapy: consent, power dynamics, memory, boundaries, and what happens when only one partner improves. Is this the future of trauma care — or a dangerous leap?
This conversation challenges the standard medical model, questions the limits of psychedelic therapy, and asks whether healing sometimes requires more than one nervous system.
✅ Key Points / Topics
- Why relationship trauma isn’t just “one person’s PTSD”
- How MDMA-assisted therapy is being adapted for couples
- The science behind “dyadic healing”
- What happens when both partners dose — together
- How MDMA opens emotional flexibility + secure bonding
- Core risks: power imbalance, coercion, storytelling shifts
- Ethical challenges in couples psychedelic work
- Is relational MDMA therapy scalable?
- Why some couples shouldn’t take MDMA together
- What traditional therapy gets wrong about trauma
- “The Power of Two” — healing via the relationship itself
- Case outcomes — surprising results
- Where research goes from here
🎧 Plus: updates from Psychedelic Science 2025, upcoming guests like Leonard Pickard and Reggie Watts, and why the future of therapy might come in pairs.
⏱️ Chapters:
00:00 – Intro & Conference Check-In
04:22 – Meet Dr. Anne Wagner
04:38 – Misunderstandings About MDMA Therapy
07:13 – Empathy and Connection on MDMA
09:05 – Pilot Study Results from MDMA + CBCT
14:08 – Unexpected Dyadic Challenges
16:31 – Why Couples Therapy vs Solo MDMA Work
20:09 – Shifting Toward CPT + MDMA
24:18 – Preview of Anne’s Panels at PS25
28:57 – Defining Integration for Couples
32:35 – Will Dyadic Integration Become Its Own Field?
34:52 – Power Dynamics, Communication & Conflict on MDMA
37:22 – MDMA, Neurodivergence, and CPTSD
40:38 – Future of MDMA in General Relationship Work
42:13 – Ethical Guardrails for Psychedelic Couples Therapy
44:50 – Risks of Untrained Psychedelic Facilitators
45:44 – Training Models for Dyadic Psychedelic Therapists
47:20 – Access, Regulation & Stigma Barriers
49:20 – Anne’s Origin Story: Psychedelics, Trauma & Relationships
51:23 – Most Unexpected Lesson from the Work
53:09 – How to Connect with Remedy Centre
54:02 – Final Thoughts & Psychedelic Science Plans
59:09 – Outro: PTSD Breakthroughs & Upcoming Guests
Music by Flintwick
Follow and subscribe!
Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE
Zendo Project
Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Support the show
Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mycocosm, and our Heroic Doser Lucy on Patreon!
Use our code to get 10% off of Zendo Sit Training
DIVERGENTS10
24 episodes
Share
Manage episode 490307594 series 3615295
Content provided by Divergent States. All podcast content including episodes, graphics, and podcast descriptions are uploaded and provided directly by Divergent States or their podcast platform partner. If you believe someone is using your copyrighted work without your permission, you can follow the process outlined here https://podcastplayer.com/legal.
In this episode, 3L1T3 sits down with Dr. Anne Wagner, clinical psychologist and founder of Remedy, whose research pushes MDMA therapy beyond the individual — into the space between two people. We explore what happens when couples facing PTSD enter treatment together, why trauma rarely belongs to just one partner, and whether psychedelic medicine can transform relational patterns where traditional therapy fails.
We also examine the ethical and emotional risks of dyadic MDMA therapy: consent, power dynamics, memory, boundaries, and what happens when only one partner improves. Is this the future of trauma care — or a dangerous leap?
This conversation challenges the standard medical model, questions the limits of psychedelic therapy, and asks whether healing sometimes requires more than one nervous system.
✅ Key Points / Topics
- Why relationship trauma isn’t just “one person’s PTSD”
- How MDMA-assisted therapy is being adapted for couples
- The science behind “dyadic healing”
- What happens when both partners dose — together
- How MDMA opens emotional flexibility + secure bonding
- Core risks: power imbalance, coercion, storytelling shifts
- Ethical challenges in couples psychedelic work
- Is relational MDMA therapy scalable?
- Why some couples shouldn’t take MDMA together
- What traditional therapy gets wrong about trauma
- “The Power of Two” — healing via the relationship itself
- Case outcomes — surprising results
- Where research goes from here
🎧 Plus: updates from Psychedelic Science 2025, upcoming guests like Leonard Pickard and Reggie Watts, and why the future of therapy might come in pairs.
⏱️ Chapters:
00:00 – Intro & Conference Check-In
04:22 – Meet Dr. Anne Wagner
04:38 – Misunderstandings About MDMA Therapy
07:13 – Empathy and Connection on MDMA
09:05 – Pilot Study Results from MDMA + CBCT
14:08 – Unexpected Dyadic Challenges
16:31 – Why Couples Therapy vs Solo MDMA Work
20:09 – Shifting Toward CPT + MDMA
24:18 – Preview of Anne’s Panels at PS25
28:57 – Defining Integration for Couples
32:35 – Will Dyadic Integration Become Its Own Field?
34:52 – Power Dynamics, Communication & Conflict on MDMA
37:22 – MDMA, Neurodivergence, and CPTSD
40:38 – Future of MDMA in General Relationship Work
42:13 – Ethical Guardrails for Psychedelic Couples Therapy
44:50 – Risks of Untrained Psychedelic Facilitators
45:44 – Training Models for Dyadic Psychedelic Therapists
47:20 – Access, Regulation & Stigma Barriers
49:20 – Anne’s Origin Story: Psychedelics, Trauma & Relationships
51:23 – Most Unexpected Lesson from the Work
53:09 – How to Connect with Remedy Centre
54:02 – Final Thoughts & Psychedelic Science Plans
59:09 – Outro: PTSD Breakthroughs & Upcoming Guests
Music by Flintwick
Follow and subscribe!
Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE
Zendo Project
Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Support the show
Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mycocosm, and our Heroic Doser Lucy on Patreon!
Use our code to get 10% off of Zendo Sit Training
DIVERGENTS10
24 episodes
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Similar to Divergent States
When you hear the words Alzheimer's disease, what do you think of? The truth is, the picture most of us have of the disease is incomplete. Alzheimer's disease doesn't start when someone starts to lose their memory. It actually starts years – sometimes decades – earlier. The Rethinking Alzheimer's Disease Podcast is an engaging, narrative-style podcast miniseries for those curious or motivated to learn about Alzheimer’s disease. Perhaps you have a family member with Alzheimer’s disease, or ca ...
…
continue reading
A myriad of AI, science, and technology experts explore the real challenges and enormous opportunities facing entrepreneurs who are building the future of health. Raising Health, a podcast by a16z Bio + Health, dives deep into the heart of biotechnology and healthcare innovation. Join veteran company builders, operators, and investors Vineeta Agarwala, Julie Yoo, and Jorge Conde, along with distinguished guests like Mark Cuban, Greg Verdine, Fei-Fei Li, and Suchi Saria, as they explore the i ...
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continue reading
Going Wild with Dr. Rae Wynn Grant is a different kind of nature show about the human drama of saving animals. From a paleoanthropologist who hunts fossils in conflict zones to someone who helped save an endangered species while in prison, in season four we will hear from real-life heroes and nature advocates with widely different expertise and life experiences that led them to be champions for the natural world. Wildlife biologist and host Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant has been studying wild animals i ...
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continue reading
All In The Mind is ABC RN's weekly podcast looking into the mental universe, the mind, brain and behaviour — everything from addiction to artificial intelligence.
…
continue reading
Interviews with Anthropologists about their New Books Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/anthropology
…
continue reading
Flash Forward is a show about possible (and not so possible) future scenarios. What would the warranty on a sex robot look like? How would diplomacy work if we couldn’t lie? Could there ever be a fecal transplant black market? (Complicated, it wouldn’t, and yes, respectively, in case you’re curious.) Hosted and produced by award winning science journalist Rose Eveleth, each episode combines audio drama and journalism to go deep on potential tomorrows, and uncovers what those futures might re ...
…
continue reading
Timeless Practical Wisdom For Living a Meaningful Life Inspiring stories and practical advice from creatives, entrepreneurs, change-makers, misfits, and rebels to help you become successful on your own terms Our listeners say, “If TEDTalks met Oprah you’d have the Unmistakable Creative.” Eliminate the feeling of being stuck in your life, blocked in your creativity, and discover higher levels of meaning and purpose in your life and career. Listen to deeply personal, insightful, and thought-pr ...
…
continue reading
Deep in the back of your mind, you’ve always had the feeling that there’s something strange about reality. There is. Join Robert Lamb and Joe McCormick as they examine neurological quandaries, cosmic mysteries, evolutionary marvels and our transhuman future.
…
continue reading
Happy to be Here is an interview podcast for the recovering perfectionist and the perpetually curious. It’s full of conversations you can sink your teeth into, so you can learn a little about almost everything.
…
continue reading
The Upaya Dharma Podcast features Wednesday evening Dharma Talks and recordings from Upaya’s diverse array of programs. Our podcasts exemplify Upaya’s focus on socially engaged Buddhism, including prison work, end-of-life care, serving the homeless, training in socially engaged practices, peace & nonviolence, compassionate care training, and delivering healthcare in the Himalayas.
…
continue reading
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Go offline with the Player FM app!
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