In this episode of the Distributed podcast, host Jack Hannah sits down with Woody Zuill, the programmer, coach, and speaker best known for popularizing mob programming.

Rather than rehashing the basics of mob programming, Woody talks about what it means to focus on effectiveness instead of productivity and what management gets all wrong. Woody shares insights from decades of experience coaching teams around the world and explains how to create environments that allow real collaboration to flourish.

Highlights:

• The philosophy behind mob programming and software teaming
• Why effectiveness matters more than productivity
• How AI affects how teams collaborate

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) – Kicking things off with Woody Zuill

(01:10) – The Robert Henri quote that frames Woody’s philosophy

(03:16) – Letting teams self-organize and experiment with how they work freely

(07:41) – Cutting a 500-bug backlog to 17 by working closely as a team

(10:11) – Why separating teams by specialty fragments doesn’t work

(12:22) – Productivity vs. effectiveness and who software is really for

(14:55) – Figuring out what matters through doing, not managing

(17:26) – Will AI replace teams or change how they collaborate?

(19:12) – The role of AI in software development and teamwork

(22:03) – Woody’s advice to new engineers and how to shape better workplaces

References

Jack’s favorite talk from Woody: Mob Programming: A Whole Team Approach

Lean Software Development by Mary Poppendieck and Tom Poppendieck

The Art of Computer Programming by Donald Knuth

The 4 Stages of Psychological Safety by Timothy Clark

Teaming by Amy Edmondson

Where to connect further:

Connect with Woody Zuill on LinkedIn and on his website

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Want to hear more? Check out distributed.fm

Connect with Jack Hannah