As mounting debt strangles public services and climate disasters escalate, a provocative idea is gaining ground: what if countries could trade their debt burdens for environmental action? In this episode of DevelopmentAid Dialogues podcast, host Hisham Allam speaks with Sawsan Bou Fakhreddine, Director General of the Association for Forests, Development and Conservation (AFDC), about debt-for-nature swaps—a mechanism that promises relief for both treasuries and threatened ecosystems. From Lebanon’s crumbling forests to the global search for sustainable finance, Bou Fakhreddine brings rare on-the-ground insight into a tool many see as underused, poorly understood, and urgently needed.

At their core, these swaps let heavily indebted countries reduce or restructure their debt in exchange for serious environmental commitments. The potential is huge—but so are the blind spots. “The level or the degree of degradation of land and ecosystems and natural resources is way faster than recovery,” Bou Fakhreddine warned. “What we lose in one day, for instance in wildfire, would need like a decade or more to be restored—if we are able to restore it.”

Bou Fakhreddine, who also serves as a senior advisor to Lebanon’s Minister of Agriculture, has worked on disaster risk and ecosystem governance for over two decades. She says the concept is promising—but few understand it. “There’s misunderstanding about it at all levels,” she said. “At the government level, they don't see it as an opportunity.”

Why? “Decision-makers... they don't see it in figures,” she explained. “If we manage to valorize the ecosystems—put a dollar value on land degradation... then they would start trying to understand this kind of concept.”

But knowledge gaps aren’t the only barrier. “Poor governance is the first threat,” she said. “We have a lot of laws... but we don’t have the tools, the good governance, to be able to implement those strategies.” Even successful restoration plans often fall apart, she added, “because we are in a crisis mode for the last 10 years.”

Still, Bou Fakhreddine insists real-world models can work—if built from the ground up. “Never bring to the community a ready-made project,” she said. “Consult, consult and consult. Because they are the owner of the land... they live there, they benefit from the service of the ecosystem.”

AFDC has implemented wildfire risk reduction plans that put communities in charge of their own protection. “Where we are able to succeed is where we build trust with the local community,” she explained. “We never bring anything by force.”

And when trust is lacking? “We didn’t succeed,” she said plainly. “It’s very easy to sabotage a natural ecosystem.”

Listen to the full episode with Sawsan Bou Fakhreddine on DevelopmentAid Dialogues. Stay informed. Stay engaged.

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