In this episode of Conversations, we unpack a critical mindset shift for pastors and church leaders: stop using people to build the church—start using the church to build people.

We dive into five key thoughts that challenge the way we lead, manage, and care for those in our churches. From the tension between organizational and spiritual leadership to the importance of honoring people over gifting, this episode offers both conviction and practical steps to help you lead with heart.

Topics include:
• Building a people-first church culture
• The true role of a shepherd in leadership
• How to empower, not extract, from your leaders
• Why presence matters more than performance
• Reflective questions to help assess your leadership approach

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Website: https://joshandrew.org/

If you’re ready to create a healthy, sustainable, and people-centric ministry, this episode will give you tools to do just that.

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